Equality between the Father and Son

[placebofactor]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

[Revelations won]

To Freeman,

The scriptures were given by revelation and therefore can only clearly be understood by revelation.

The scriptures made it very clear that the gifts of the spirit are many and that this power of the comforter can be reieved by many by the proper authority and by the individual receiving keeping the commandments which allows the Holy Ghost to teach us “all things” pertaining to godliness. From that perspective let us re-examine the following scriptures.


John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

So we have it from Christ, The Son of God, that He is very obviously NOT equal to His Father.

My comments: I agree with you!
It is verily clear from the scriptures that Christ did have glory with the Father before he was born in the flesh.


And, of course, we also have it from Christ, the Son of God, that His Father IS His God, just as His Father is our God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

These are UNAMBIGUOUS verses that provide absolutely no wiggle room for anyone to falsely claim that the Son is allegedly equal to the Father, or that the Son IS God (instead of the Son OF God, as Christ also plainly stated over 50 times in the Gospel accounts).
Yes, the Father is greater, higher in rank and position to Jesus but that does not mean that Jesus is not God.

My comments: On this point I would agree.

You next said: Of course it means that Jesus is NOT God. When did Jesus EVER claim to be God? Answer: NOWHERE.

My comments: In your above statement you are entering a “private interpretation”

In Christs previous mission as the Great Jehovah he fulfilled his assignment from the father in the creation process and and for the first four thousand years fulfilled his divine mission. You claim that he never claimed to be God.

May I kindly say that God reveals things in a manner and capacity according the ability of mankind to receive and in a manner which allows his mission and works to proceed as planned.

One should consider the clear fact when he at his first coming did not come as the administrator of the “law” , but as the “humble illustrator” of the “law”. Even with this very humble approach the apostate condition of the jewish hierarchy sought to murder him in his most tender years and throughout his three year mission.

Consider the most violent and overwhelming reaction that would’ve resulted If he had revealed his true identity as the great Jehovah. I think that their reaction would have been overwhelmingly obvious!

Capbook wrote: ↑
Fri May 09, 2025 6:13 pm
That is what is called "relational subordination",
No, it isn't. Falsely claiming that "Jesus is God" would be more aptly named "ignorance of relationship subordination" because it requires one to ignore the true, SPIRITUAL Father-Son relationship between God and His Firstborn/First-CREATED Son: Prince Michael/Christ.

My responses:

It should be plainly obvious that no where in the Bible is it stated that “Michael” is “Jesus Christ”. This is simply just another “man made” interpretation of scripture.

As I also said in another topic:

I realize of course that there are some who have an incorrect understanding of the Father and the Son which in and of itself adds more error and confusion.

Is it not also of fundamental import that we all should have a clear and certain knowledge of every aspect of the corporeal nature of both the Father and the Son?

For example, has the Son ever received or possessed anything which the Father does not already have?

Another example is, has the Son ever done anything which the Father ha not already done?

Did not Christ also have glory with the Father before the world was?

Did not, according to scripture Christ bring more glory to the Father in heaven before he became the only begotten Son of the Father in the flesh?

Did not Christ in his mortal mission by submitting to the will of the Father in all things also bring more glory to the Father?

Mortal man may devise philosophies of man trying to formulate their man made ideas relating to heavenly things.


I submit that all that efforts by man completely fail in comparison to the most powerful testimony given by Christ himself when he so testified in the following:

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


Do we not also follow and worship Christ as the angels of God do as our great exemplar?

Do we also in this process humble and condition ourselves by so doing to also ultimately prepare ourselves to become worthy to allow Christ to introduce us to the point of our ultimate focus of highest worship of the great Elohim, the most high God even our Father in heaven, who is literally the very Father of our spirits and ultimately serve him who is the most high God?

I also quote from another topic which clarifies and illustrates that Michael is not christ.

May I suggest a few other scriptures that clearly refute the false “man made assumption that Michael is Christ”.


Daniel 7:
9
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

We should clearly observe in the above revelations to Daniel that Jesus (The Son of Man) is not the ancient of days, since it is very clear that the “Son of Man” was brought before the “Ancient of Days” who then gave Him (“The Son of Man” dominion, glory and a kingdom etc.

Who in all heaven and earth could give unto the “Son of Man” such a kingdom, but one only who is none other than the Most high God, even God our Heavenly Father?

Further this clearly shows the “The Ancient of Days” is indeed Mighty Michael who only had this very sovereignty and full authority to give this everlasting kingdom unto his only begotten Son in the flesh.

This is further testified in Revelation 12 as quoted below.

Revelation 12: 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


We further observe in Acts 3: 19-21 That in the latter days that there must needs be a “Restoration” of all things in Christ since the world began. Obviously there would be absolutely none of such a restoration if these things had not be lost or removed in the first place.

Please also carefully observe that Christ himself would also come as the initial preluded to this restoration of all things


Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


20
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Why should men wonder at this divine restoration so prophesied in acts 13:35 thru 41?

Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36
For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37
But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40
Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41
Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

In conclusion after you have carefully studied the above prophesies of Daniel, it should be obvious that Mighty Michael “The Ancient of Days” is indeed none other than the Most High God, even the Eternal father of the sprits of all mankind..Our Heavenly Father.


For brevity’s sake I will submit these responses now and respond further later.

[marke]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

Since Jesus existed with God before the world began it would seem that God must have elevated Jesus then, rather than later, if that is what people believe happened.

[A Freeman]

Before the beginning of time, space or the creation of the universe, there was the Singularity we refer to as God.

God's First Creation was Michael. When God created Michael God became known as "Father" and "Creator".

Father then created everything and everyone else -- through/by and for Michael -- including the rest of the angels of heaven, the worlds, and the rest of the universe. And, in doing so, Father taught Michael everything Michael knows. Without Father, Michael could do nothing, as Father is The King Ruler of the Universe and THE Creative Force behind all of it.

Michael is the ONLY Son that God alone created. And, as the Firstborn/First-created Son of God, Father anointed Michael (hence His Title as "The Anointed One", i.e. The Messiah/Christ). And, as the Firstborn/First-created Son, Father appointed Michael heir of all things, including heir to Father's Throne (hence Michael's title as "the Great Prince").

There is no one higher than, nor equal to Father. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that has ever been created, including Crown Prince Michael, could not have been created without Father. And everything Father thinks, expresses or does is PERFECT.

As God's Firstborn/First-created Son, Prince Michael COMMANDS the rest of the angels (the heavenly host - Father's Army. That is why Prince Michael, known here on Earth as Christ, is the head of every man, the one and only mediator between God and man, aka The High-Priest, Good Shepherd and Holy Spirit. Prince Michael/Christ is our connection to Father.

Father has given Prince Michael/Christ all of this power because of his HUMILITY and OBEDIENCE to Father in ALL things. Prince Michael/Christ takes his position and authority very seriously, which should be self-evident given his willing sacrifice to pay for our past sins, thereby giving us the opportunity to come to our senses and follow his example.

There is no other way home, to our Father in heaven, other than through Prince Michael/Christ.

All of the above is straight out of Scripture, and is supported by hundreds upon hundreds of verses.

We can either learn The Way home or face The Fire, exactly as Prince Michael/Christ has warned us for thousands of years.

[marke]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

That is not so. God never called the Son "God." The Hebrew (Psalm 45) from which the writer of Hebrews rendered Heb.1:8 did not say anything about God calling the Son "O God." The Hebrew language (in the Psalms) says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." The writer of Hebrews would undoubtedly copy down carefully what the verse said in Hebrew. The translation "God is your throne" is more accurate than "your throne O God." All power comes to the Son from the Father.

Verse 10 does not find the Father calling the Son "Jehovah." It says, "You at the beginning O Lord..." It does not have "Lord" in all capital letters which would indicate it was Jehovah that was being referenced. It is just "Lord," which Jesus was called many times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). A very weak defense for the Jesus-is-God theory.

In fact, verse 9 shows unequivocally that the Son has a God. It says, "God, your God anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

Here's the Hebrew of Psa 45:6 (7 in the Tanakh) below and it does not say what you've said. You quote the translation but not the original. See the Tanakh written in Hebrew and compare the Strong Numbers with the KJV of Psa 45:6, it proves you wrong. And in Heb 1:9, as you quote it, we can read two "God" there, one refer to Jesus in support to verse 8, and the other refer to the Father. Thus God Jesus, anointed with oil of joy by God the Father.

Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626 

That is not what the Tanakh in Hebrew says about the actual wording of Psalm 45:6. It says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." No where near "your throne O God." The writer of Hebrews would have copied that verse verbatim, and there is no room for translating it as "your throne O God." Also, it is God, Jesus' God, that anoints him as the Messiah. There is not anything to refer to Jesus as God.

Marke: We know that Jesus was either a 'divine' being with supernatural powers or those who saw his miracles lied about what they saw. Jesus as the Son of God dwelt in Heaven with God the Father before the world began.

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Marke: And Jesus raised Himself from mthe dead, proving He was not just a man.

John 10:16-18
King James Version
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

[onewithhim]

Psalm 45:1-7 (with parenthetical inserts to plainly show who David is talking about)
45:1 <To the chief Musician upon Shoshannim, for the sons of Korah, Maschil, A Song of loves.> My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue [is] the pen of a ready writer.
45:2 Thou (Christ) art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever*.
45:3 Gird thy (Christ's) sword upon [thy] thigh, O [most] mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
45:4 And in thy (Christ's) majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness [and] righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
45:5 Thine (Christ's) arrows [are] sharp in the heart of the King's (God's) enemies; [whereby] the people fall under thee.
45:6 (As a humble and obedient servant Christ said:) Thy Throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of Thy (God's) Kingdom [is] a Right sceptre (Matt. 6:10).
45:7 Thou (Christ) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy (Christ's) God, hath anointed thee (Christ) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (the rest of the angels/Sons of God).

Psalm 45:2 makes it crystal clear that this is a psalm praising Christ, whom David refers to as "my Lord" (Psalm 110:1)

Christ, Who is NOT human, is fairer than the children of men (both in appearance and in being just (Php. 2:9-11; John 5:22); renowned for being FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH (John 1:14). And is The One Whom God Anointed.

Compare Ps. 45:3 to Luke 19:27.

Compare Ps. 45:4 with Ps. 68:4; Php. 2:7-8; and Rev. 19:11

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Hebrews 1:8-9 is meant to be a direct quote of Psalm 45:6-7 above. Obviously God doesn't have a God, or He wouldn't be God (The Most High) by definition. And it is likewise obviously God Who anointed Christ (Christ means "The One Whom God Anointed), in part rewarding Christ for loving righteousness and hating wickedness (which is also why God has committed all judgment to Christ - John 5:22).

Hebrews 1:8-9 is a direct quote from the Psalms. The Jews themselves translated it from the Hebrew to say: "Your divine throne is everlasting." Divine does not mean that Jesus is God. It merely means "like or from" God. The verse means that the Messiah receives his power and authority from God.

Verse 9 shows that Jesus has a God---"God, your God, anointed you..."

[A Freeman]

Psalm 45:1-7 (with parenthetical inserts to plainly show who David is talking about)
45:1 <To the chief Musician upon Shoshannim, for the sons of Korah, Maschil, A Song of loves.> My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue [is] the pen of a ready writer.
45:2 Thou (Christ) art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever*.
45:3 Gird thy (Christ's) sword upon [thy] thigh, O [most] mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
45:4 And in thy (Christ's) majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness [and] righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
45:5 Thine (Christ's) arrows [are] sharp in the heart of the King's (God's) enemies; [whereby] the people fall under thee.
45:6 (As a humble and obedient servant Christ said:) Thy Throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of Thy (God's) Kingdom [is] a Right sceptre (Matt. 6:10).
45:7 Thou (Christ) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy (Christ's) God, hath anointed thee (Christ) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (the rest of the angels/Sons of God).

Psalm 45:2 makes it crystal clear that this is a psalm praising Christ, whom David refers to as "my Lord" (Psalm 110:1)

Christ, Who is NOT human, is fairer than the children of men (both in appearance and in being just (Php. 2:9-11; John 5:22); renowned for being FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH (John 1:14). And is The One Whom God Anointed.

Compare Ps. 45:3 to Luke 19:27.

Compare Ps. 45:4 with Ps. 68:4; Php. 2:7-8; and Rev. 19:11

-------

Hebrews 1:8-9 is meant to be a direct quote of Psalm 45:6-7 above. Obviously God doesn't have a God, or He wouldn't be God (The Most High) by definition. And it is likewise obviously God Who anointed Christ (Christ means "The One Whom God Anointed), in part rewarding Christ for loving righteousness and hating wickedness (which is also why God has committed all judgment to Christ - John 5:22).

Hebrews 1:8-9 is a direct quote from the Psalms. The Jews themselves translated it from the Hebrew to say: "Your divine throne is everlasting." Divine does not mean that Jesus is God. It merely means "like or from" God. The verse means that the Messiah receives his power and authority from God.

Verse 9 shows that Jesus has a God---"God, your God, anointed you..."

Agreed. Interestingly, the name of Michael literally means "Who is LIKE God?"

And the title "Messiah" (Hebrew) and "Christ" (English, from the Greek "Christos") literally mean "The ONE Whom God anointed" which precludes Christ from being God (as there would be no reason for God to anoint Himself, or appoint Himself heir of things He already owns and is the King Ruler over.

Is it completely forgotten by those who have accepted the butchered translation of Hebrews 1:8-9 that God has promised to GIVE the Davidic Throne of Israel to Christ?

Luke 1:31-33
1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Saviour).
1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of The Highest: and the Lord God his Father shall GIVE unto him the Throne of David:
1:33 And he shall reign over the "House of Jacob/Israel" for ever; and of his Kingdom there shall be no end.

[onewithhim]

Psalm 45:1-7 (with parenthetical inserts to plainly show who David is talking about)
45:1 <To the chief Musician upon Shoshannim, for the sons of Korah, Maschil, A Song of loves.> My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue [is] the pen of a ready writer.
45:2 Thou (Christ) art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever*.
45:3 Gird thy (Christ's) sword upon [thy] thigh, O [most] mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
45:4 And in thy (Christ's) majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness [and] righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
45:5 Thine (Christ's) arrows [are] sharp in the heart of the King's (God's) enemies; [whereby] the people fall under thee.
45:6 (As a humble and obedient servant Christ said:) Thy Throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of Thy (God's) Kingdom [is] a Right sceptre (Matt. 6:10).
45:7 Thou (Christ) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy (Christ's) God, hath anointed thee (Christ) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (the rest of the angels/Sons of God).

Psalm 45:2 makes it crystal clear that this is a psalm praising Christ, whom David refers to as "my Lord" (Psalm 110:1)

Christ, Who is NOT human, is fairer than the children of men (both in appearance and in being just (Php. 2:9-11; John 5:22); renowned for being FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH (John 1:14). And is The One Whom God Anointed.

Compare Ps. 45:3 to Luke 19:27.

Compare Ps. 45:4 with Ps. 68:4; Php. 2:7-8; and Rev. 19:11

-------

Hebrews 1:8-9 is meant to be a direct quote of Psalm 45:6-7 above. Obviously God doesn't have a God, or He wouldn't be God (The Most High) by definition. And it is likewise obviously God Who anointed Christ (Christ means "The One Whom God Anointed), in part rewarding Christ for loving righteousness and hating wickedness (which is also why God has committed all judgment to Christ - John 5:22).

Hebrews 1:8-9 is a direct quote from the Psalms. The Jews themselves translated it from the Hebrew to say: "Your divine throne is everlasting." Divine does not mean that Jesus is God. It merely means "like or from" God. The verse means that the Messiah receives his power and authority from God.

Verse 9 shows that Jesus has a God---"God, your God, anointed you..."

Agreed. Interestingly, the name of Michael literally means "Who is LIKE God?"

And the title "Messiah" (Hebrew) and "Christ" (English, from the Greek "Christos") literally mean "The ONE Whom God anointed" which precludes Christ from being God (as there would be no reason for God to anoint Himself, or appoint Himself heir of things He already owns and is the King Ruler over.

Is it completely forgotten by those who have accepted the butchered translation of Hebrews 1:8-9 that God has promised to GIVE the Davidic Throne of Israel to Christ?

Luke 1:31-33
1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Saviour).
1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of The Highest: and the Lord God his Father shall GIVE unto him the Throne of David:
1:33 And he shall reign over the "House of Jacob/Israel" for ever; and of his Kingdom there shall be no end.

What is to be concluded after examining the scriptures that say that the Father GAVE the throne to the Messiah? Simply that Christ did not already have it. If he was God he wouldn't have to have anything given to him. Who is the Highest? It's not the Messiah.

[Revelations won]

To all respondents,


I find it a bit amusing that no one seems to have the courage to refute what I have posted in my Post # 21 on May 10, 2025. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

It should prove interesting to see if you and disprove the scriptures I have used to make my point.

[A Freeman]

To all respondents,


I find it a bit amusing that no one seems to have the courage to refute what I have posted in my Post # 21 on May 10, 2025. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

It should prove interesting to see if you and disprove the scriptures I have used to make my point.

The notion that "Jesus is God" has already been refuted, even if you don't acknowledge that fact. The same goes for your false claims that The Great Prince Michael, whom God appointed to be the Commander of the Heavenly Host, allegedly isn't God's anointed One (The Messiah/Christ).

"Greater than" can NEVER mean "equal to" in any context, nor under any circumstances. And a "son" is always the offspring of the Father, whether through creation (as with God), or through procreation, as humans do.

You've been provided HUNDREDS of verses that very clearly show the subordinate relationship of the Son to the Father (whom the Son obeys, worships and calls his God and our God). How much more do you need?

You have yet to produce one single verse where Jesus unambiguously claimed to be God, or claimed to be all-knowing, or claimed to be all-powerful, or claimed to be present everywhere at the same time, or claimed to be invisible, or instructed others to pray to him.

Is this what you find so amusing? That you cannot provide even a single verse that unambiguously -- i.e. clearly and plainly, requiring no manipulation, horrible and obvious (mis)translations or illogical assumptions -- states that "Jesus is God"?

[A Freeman]

Words or phrases that those who believe "Jesus is God" -- whether as part of the 3=1 "trinity" doctrine or its variant "oneness" doctrine -- must deceitfully redefine to try to make that religious superstition work in their minds:-

Appointed/Appointed One
Anointed/Anointed One
Born
Brethren
Corporeal
Creature
Father
Fellows
Firstborn/Firstbegotten (or first-created)
Equal to
Given
God
Godhead
Grace
Greater than
Heir
Image
Inheritance
Invisible
Made
Man
Mediator
Nothing
Of
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient
One
Son
Son of God
Son of Man
The Head of
The MOST High
Three
Two
Visible

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See also:

The World's Oldest Profession -