Is the Jehovah Witness Religion a Christian Religion?

[polonius]

Do Jehovah Witnesses consider Jesus Christ to be God? If so, does it maintain that there are two divine persons? God and Jesus Christ?

Are both God and Jesus eternal and coequal?

[onewithhim]

I comfort myself with the notion that, come the end of days, God will know His own, whatever their theology, doctrine or dogma.

This is the unfortunate phrase used to justify the slaughter of 20,000 at the siege of Béziers in the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars in France. I suppose the phrase from 2 Timothy 2 didn't anticipate a massacre. I don't believe any religious group, Baptists, JWs, Catholics, sets out with wrong notions, but sincerely hopes they are the possessors of truth. It would be useful if God clarified the situation while people can do something about it rather than wait till the tribes of the Earth are gathered in whatever imaginary valley can accommodate them.

I suspect, after paying attention to the history of the RCC, that the popes knew that they were far off from Bible standards, and DID purposely set out with sub-standard notions the many things they perpetrated. (For example, where in the Bible does it say that people will get into heaven by going to war? The Crusades were started with that promise from the pope.)

Jehovah has His time set in stone. He will clarify everything. He has already said in the Scriptures that men can't even direct their own steps, much less solve all of the problems of the world. Mankind can't do it. And there is enough instruction for us in the Scriptures to help us wait for Him to bring evil to an end.

"I well know, O Jehovah, that to man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jeremiah 10:23)

"Keep silent before Jehovah and wait longingly for him." (Psalm 37:7)




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[2ndRateMind]

I comfort myself with the notion that, come the end of days, God will know His own, whatever their theology, doctrine or dogma.

... It would be useful if God clarified the situation while people can do something about it ...

Hmmm. Interesting, Marco. Which God do you truly want? Jesus' loving, forgiving, redeeming Father of humanity, or a moral dictator of morality?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 212 by polonius]

The Bible doesn't say that the sun moves around the earth, and don't you appreciate poetic license?




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RESPONSE: I PREFER THE FACTS

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 212 by polonius]

The Bible doesn't say that the sun moves around the earth, and don't you appreciate poetic license?




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RESPONSE: I PREFER THE FACTS

So what about "the foundations of the earth" is objectionable to you? Don't writers even today use hyperbole such as that?




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[polonius]

[Replying to post 212 by polonius]

The Bible doesn't say that the sun moves around the earth, and don't you appreciate poetic license?




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RESPONSE: I PREFER THE FACTS

So what about "the foundations of the earth" is objectionable to you? Don't writers even today use hyperbole such as that?




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RESPONSE: Not if they are writing factual history rather than fiction and don't want to be burned at the stake as a heretics!.

Official Catholic teaching on the earth not moving (obviously not hyperbole since one is condemned if not believing it.)

"This Holy Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:
The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture; and that consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents."

If you are Catholic please supply your name so we can report you for heresy! I don't know if they are still burning heretics at the stake for not believing this scripture.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 212 by polonius]

The Bible doesn't say that the sun moves around the earth, and don't you appreciate poetic license?




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RESPONSE: I PREFER THE FACTS

So what about "the foundations of the earth" is objectionable to you? Don't writers even today use hyperbole such as that?




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RESPONSE: Not if they are writing factual history rather than fiction and don't want to be burned at the stake as a heretics!.

Official Catholic teaching on the earth not moving (obviously not hyperbole since one is condemned if not believing it.)

"This Holy Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:
The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture; and that consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents."

If you are Catholic please supply your name so we can report you for heresy! I don't know if they are still burning heretics at the stake for not believing this scripture.

Wait a minute. I'm not giving a nod to the RCC. I do not think they speak for true Christians. They said you would be excommunicated or worse if you said that the earth moved, even though the Bible doesn't say that! A person can twist "the pillars of the earth" til the cows come home, but that doesn't mean that the Bible is wrong for using poetic language---it never says that the earth is stationary.


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[polonius]

[Replying to post 212 by polonius]

The Bible doesn't say that the sun moves around the earth, and don't you appreciate poetic license?




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RESPONSE: I PREFER THE FACTS

So what about "the foundations of the earth" is objectionable to you? Don't writers even today use hyperbole such as that?




.

RESPONSE: Not if they are writing factual history rather than fiction and don't want to be burned at the stake as a heretics!.

Official Catholic teaching on the earth not moving (obviously not hyperbole since one is condemned if not believing it.)

"This Holy Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Holy Faith, by command of His Holiness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:
The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture; and that consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated in the sacred canons and other constitutions, general and particular, against such delinquents."

If you are Catholic please supply your name so we can report you for heresy! I don't know if they are still burning heretics at the stake for not believing this scripture.

Wait a minute. I'm not giving a nod to the RCC. I do not think they speak for true Christians. They said you would be excommunicated or worse if you said that the earth moved, even though the Bible doesn't say that! A person can twist "the pillars of the earth" til the cows come home, but that doesn't mean that the Bible is wrong for using poetic language---it never says that the earth is stationary.


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RESPONSE: It says exactly that! And this belief was an enforced doctrine.

Galileo almost got burned for heresy for saying otherwise. Look up the Condemnation of Galileo on the web.


And read a good biblical translation!

American Standard Version
Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved for ever.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Who establishes the earth on her sure foundation: it shall not be moved for ever.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who hast founded the earth upon its own bases: it shall not be moved for ever and ever.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 224 by polonius]

It does NOT say exactly that. It is saying that the earth will REMAIN forever, never to be destroyed.

Once again, the RCC did not get it right. It doesn't interpret Scripture correctly most of the time anyway. They were WRONG about saying that the earth not moving meant that it did not go around the Sun. That is not what the verse meant.



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[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 213 by 2ndRateMind]

Indeed the bible does indicate God will vindicate his own. I often think of Jesus executed as the first of criminals, his Father could not let that go without clearing his son of all reproach. Jehovah loves his people, we may not be perfect but we're loyal, hardworking and have accepted to bear his name.



JW