This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[polonius]

Matthew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

[Replying to post 242 by tam]

It's not just the "this generation" phrase, Tammy.

Well, it cannot be, can it? Because the 'this generation' phrase is not at all evidence of false prediction.

It's also his "some standing here" statement. A prediction which still has not come true.

Of course this came true.

Just not in the way that you (and some others) think it should have happened. This is the exact same mistake you (and some others) are making with regard to the 'this generation' statement.


In addition to that, you choose to combine the 'some standing here' statement with the 'this generation' statement, but you ignore the statement where Christ said He did not know that day or hour; and that it was not for them (His disciples) to know the times that the Father had set by His own authority (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; Acts 1:7).




This is My Son, whom I have chosen; listen to Him! Luke 9:35




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[polonius]

It was supposedly St. Paul who told us that all scripture is "God breathed"

Here's what Paul wrote about end times.

1 Thes 4.15-17 NRSV Bible

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

"We who are alive, who are left." Sounds like "this generation, doesn't it? And it's all supposed to be God breathed.

[tam]

Peace to you polonius,

It was supposedly St. Paul who told us that all scripture is "God breathed"

That does not mean that he was referring to his own letters; nor does it mean he was overriding Jeremiah 8:8.


Regardless,

Here's what Paul wrote about end times.

Here is what Paul wrote about the return of Christ and the order in which we (Christians) will rise to meet the Lord in the air.

1 Thes 4.15-17 NRSV Bible

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

"We who are alive, who are left."

Yes, and this is as true today as it was then.

We who are alive will not precede those who have died.

When Christ returns, those who have died will be resurrected, and we who are alive and who remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.


We (who are in Christ) who are alive and remain (when Christ returns)... will not precede those (who are also in Christ) who have died.

Sounds like "this generation, doesn't it?

Not in the sense that you are using the word 'generation' (contemporaries in a 40 year time period).

But yes in the sense that we (who are in Christ) are all brothers and sisters, the same generation, all of us having the same Father.

I - fathered, birth, nativity

II - that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

...... A - the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

.......B - metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character,

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[polonius]

Quote:
1 Thes 4.15-17 NRSV Bible

15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.[j] 16 For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangels call and with the sound of Gods trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

"We who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord."

Note: "We who are alive." is Jesus' generation. Not some future generation.

Yes, and this is as true today as it was then.

RESPONSE: Nope. Those who were alive when Paul wrote his 1 Thessalonians are all now dead. That is not "We who are alive."

We who are alive will not precede those who have died.

"When Christ returns, those who have died will be resurrected, and we who are alive and who remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

No. They won't be resurrected because they would still be alive according to Paul's epistle

Fundamentalists try to avoid recognizing errors and contradictions in the Bible by avoiding the plain meaning of words.

Lets look at another contradiction.

Matthew reports that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod who died in 4 BC.

But Luke reports the Jesus was born during he 6 AD census of Judea conducted 10 years after King Herods death. A ten year difference!

Obviously God must have inspired such a contradiction.

In Matthew 2:14, we are told that Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt:
"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."

Yet in Luke 2:39, they went to Nazareth after Jesus' birth:
"And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."

God must have inspired yet another contradiction if you want to believe that the Bible is all "God breathed.".

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 244 by polonius]

It's amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning of words if they don't want to accept the meaning.

The relevant words are "this generation", as used by Jesus.

He clarifies that meaning in Matthew 23 in much detail, and gives further description elsewhere.

Yes, it is "amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning" he so clearly conveyed.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 244 by polonius]

It's amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning of words if they don't want to accept the meaning.

The relevant words are "this generation", as used by Jesus.

He clarifies that meaning in Matthew 23 in much detail, and gives further description elsewhere.

Yes, it is "amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning" he so clearly conveyed.

Context, context, context. The context of the times was one of apolcalyptic expectation. Most if not all of the NT writers expected Jesus to return (and God to decisively intervene to bring about the "Kingdom of God") in their own lifetimes. This included Paul, the author of Hebrews and the author of Revelation. And Jesus too, who was a man of his times.

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

[Replying to post 253 by Elijah John]

And Jesus too, who was a man of his times.

How do you make this kind of statement as if it was fact, as if you know this?

I do not understand that.


You're not the only person who does this; I am not meaning to single you out. I just don't understand this.


How do you know what you are saying is true?




Peace again to you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 244 by polonius]

It's amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning of words if they don't want to accept the meaning.

The relevant words are "this generation", as used by Jesus.

He clarifies that meaning in Matthew 23 in much detail, and gives further description elsewhere.

Yes, it is "amazing what some try to argue to avoid the obvious plain meaning" he so clearly conveyed.

Context, context, context. The context of the times was one of apolcalyptic expectation. Most if not all of the NT writers expected Jesus to return (and God to decisively intervene to bring about the "Kingdom of God") in their own lifetimes. This included Paul, the author of Hebrews and the author of Revelation. And Jesus too, who was a man of his times.

Yes, context, context, context.

Of the specific words used, "this generation", of the person using them, and of the spiritual realities they describe.

These are independent of "the context of the times" with its expectations.

Jesus was not "a man of his times" but a man of God's times who said and did what the Father told him.

In the process he offended many, and was confusing to others, including his own disciples.

He danced to the beat of a very different drum.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 254 by tam]

How do you make this kind of statement as if it was fact, as if you know this?

In my experience you do this sort of thing all the time.

How do you know what you are saying is true?

Perhaps it is the same way that you know what you are saying is true.