Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[Capbook]

John 14:6 answers you question.

We, including Christ, will have received their life from God, we do not possess it inherently or independently!!!

So:

God has life inherently (by nature, self-existing).
Angels and Christ (in his glorified state) have life derivatively—granted to them by the Father.

Read these quotes with care.

As David wrote, “He (Jesus) asked life of You (God), and You (God) gave it to him, length of days forever and ever” (Psalm 21:4).
Jesus affirmed, “The Father has granted the Son to have life in Himself” (John 5:26).
Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35) and, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (for Life) except through me” (John 14:6).

Can you see why and how Jesus is the first fruits of them that sleep? You will also see how high God exalted His Son in raising him from the dead and blessing him with Life Eternal. The first of his brothers!

For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he (Jesus) is not ashamed to call them brothers, saying, “I will tell of your name (God's Name) to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.” Hebrews 2:11-12

You quote John 14:6, Yes, God gives us eternal life through Jesus. What had Jesus said?
He is the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Himself.
Remember the Father had said that eternal life is in His Son Jesus in 1 John 5:11. An honest answer to the question below will confirm that the Father words are truth but a dishonest answer you will make the Father a liar? Yes or no.
So now, who had the eternal life in 1 John 5:20?

Jhn 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Therefore you agree Jesus is not God as God gave him Life.

Why evade my question? again You quote John 14:6, Yes, God gives us eternal life through Jesus. What had Jesus said?
He is the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Himself.
Remember the Father had said that eternal life is in His Son Jesus in 1 John 5:11. An honest answer to the question below will confirm that the Father words are truth but a dishonest answer you will make the Father a liar? Yes or no.
So now, who had the eternal life in 1 John 5:20?

You openly quote that God Himself alone has life and that the Saints and Christ have been given this life and yet you still resist?

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26,27

Jesus cannot be God if he has been granted life by his Father!

F2F

So what the Father said in 1 John 5:11 is not true to you? That the "eternal life is in His Son" true or not?

[onewithhim]

Jesus said--( John 17:3)This means Eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and knowing the one he sent forth Jesus Christ.

That's not what John 17:3 says, though. It says:
"This is eternal life: that they would know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND THE ONE YOU HAVE SENT, JESUS CHRIST."

No trinitarian on Gods Earth knows the Father as THE ONLY TRUE GOD--they will all lose because they will not listen to Jesus.

I suspect that you'll have a harder time listening to Jesus than any trinitarians when you, yourself change the words he spoke.

No one changed any words, as has been shown in many posts on this and other threads. John 17:3 has the meaning exactly as what JWs quote. Jesus said that the Father was the "only true God." that is undisputable. That is the whole point that is being made. The verse goes on to say that we must ALSO know Jesus Christ, but it does not imply that Jesus is also the only true God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #245]

Many translations use different words but mean the same thing at many spots in Gods bible. Some have downright errors translated in. Example--I am that i am does not translate from the Hebrew in the OT it translates-i will be what i will be.

It's because JWs heavy use of paraphrase translations that changed the original Bible words that cannot be look upon through Bible lexicons to know the meaning of original Bible words at the time it was used. Without it a possibility of misguidance.
Try use literal word for word translations that aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages and you will see the difference.

No original Bible words have been "changed" in meaning. Please stop that silly idea because you can hurt many people looking on by lies. You say things against the New World Translation, yet you say that you have not perused the NWT. How can you criticize something you have not read?

[Difflugia]

No one changed any words

The Greek word γινώσκωσιν appears once in John 17:3. If the corresponding English word "know" appears more than once in the translation, then the translator changed the verse.

[onewithhim]

No one changed any words

The Greek word γινώσκωσιν appears once in John 17:3. If the corresponding English word "know" appears more than once in the translation, then the translator changed the verse.

I don't quite know what your objection is. The verse, according to the KJV and other versions, reads: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ , whom thou hast sent." It is the same in the NWT. Only one "know." So what is your point? It is not saying that Jesus is the only true God.

[Difflugia]

I don't quite know what your objection is.

The verse in Greek is ambiguous.

The verse, according to the KJV and other versions, reads: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ , whom thou hast sent." It is the same in the NWT. Only one "know." So what is your point?

That there is only one "know" and potentially one subject until servant1 changed the verse.

It is not saying that Jesus is the only true God.

It can be read that way unless the verse is changed.

[onewithhim]

I don't quite know what your objection is.

The verse in Greek is ambiguous.

The verse, according to the KJV and other versions, reads: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ , whom thou hast sent." It is the same in the NWT. Only one "know." So what is your point?

That there is only one "know" and potentially one subject until servant1 changed the verse.

It is not saying that Jesus is the only true God.

It can be read that way unless the verse is changed.

No it cannot. It is clearly saying that the Father is the only true God, and the true God sent Jesus to the earth. It doesn't hint that Jesus is also God. We are to merely get to know the true God AND Jesus Christ His Son (whom nothing is said of about being God).

[Difflugia]

No it cannot.

Maybe it's just you that can't read it that way.

It is clearly saying that the Father is the only true God, and the true God sent Jesus to the earth. It doesn't hint that Jesus is also God.

It's either that or a doublet, in which the "you" referred to in the verse is clearly both the only true God and Jesus Christ, sent by "you." Since both possibilities are equally clear, the verse is ambiguous.

We are to merely get to know the true God AND Jesus Christ His Son (whom nothing is said of about being God).

Either nothing is said of Jesus being God or Jesus is said to be the only true God. It's ambiguous.