What is God responsible for?

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Willum
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What is God responsible for?

Post #1

Post by Willum »

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:
Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.
The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #291

Post by 2timothy316 »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 286 by 2timothy316] OK then. It's all or nothing with God.
This is true.

"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength." Deut 6:4, Mark 12:30

Yet with scriptures like the promise of "O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.�—Isaiah 48:17, 18. Why wouldn't we give God our all? What is it that a person wants to do so much that a person doesn't want to listen to God? What is so wonderful that it makes disobedience seem better?
Absolute perfect obedience or you and everybody around you is subject to horrific punishment. Doesn't sound very hopeful.
No one can give absolute perfect obedience. However, in the case of Josiah, he went into war without God's direction. In fact in disobedience of God's direction. So to jump from a man that went to war while disobeying God then jumping to everyone must be absolutely perfect in obedience, aren't you going too far? What does the Bible say about imperfections?

Psalm 130:3, 4 says: “If errors were what you watch, O Jah, O Jehovah, who could stand? For there is the true forgiveness with you.� Yes, Jehovah is “a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness.� (Exodus 34:6) “You, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive.� (Psalm 86:5)

Now, what does this mean for our friend Josiah? This is where the Messiah is important, "that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.�—Acts 24:15.

Josiah messed up in a bad way. Yet, the following is not true when you said, "you and everybody around you is subject to horrific punishment." Josiah will live again and he is not suffering 'horrific punishment'. Made a huge mistake and paid for it. It's no different today when we don't listen to God's principles. Or even when we don't simply heed a warning sign on the road and obey traffic laws, we take a risk of losing our life when we disobey something that is there to protect us.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #292

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 263 by JehovahsWitness]




[center]

Lots of questions = not many answers
[/center]


JehovahsWitness wrote:
I second that: talking to people face to face is a good way to communicate. We allow people to ask us their question directly and make an effort to answer them from their own bibles.
You should see what happens to their eyes when I ask them questions that they aren't scripted for.. big big eyes... Nervous looks. Here take a pamphlet....


Why don't they TRAIN these people?



A lot of them make a show of taking my address.. telling me that an "expert" will come by..


Do you know what never ever happened to me? No "expert" ever ever showed up at my door to answer my questions, that's what never happened to me.




:)

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #293

Post by onewithhim »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 261 by onewithhim]

So you are saying God is responsible for what He prophesies?

Certainly if he foresaw it, he could prevent it. That means responsibility.

Yes, so I believe Psalms is correct,
Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth.
Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
And as ToN mentioned:
Psalms 139:
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. (NIV)
According to the Bible, everything has already been written in God's book. Everything that occurs is part of God's plan, including Hitler and the holocaust.
We have discussed this subject practically to death---about God's responsibility concerning what happens. Why do you still say that He is responsible for events that He prophesied? We already have said that He can see ahead if He wishes, and that if He knows something bad that will happen He oftentimes lets it happen, for many reasons....to let humans answer Satan's challenge, for one. He could be said to be responsible for the things that happened to Jerusalem in times past, because He was allowing Israel to be disciplined for their rebellion against Him.

God never planned such atrocities as the Holocaust, or Stalin's liquidation of millions of his own people, and on and on. None of that was in Jehovah's plans. He could see what would happen, however. Then He gives us a warning that bad times are coming, so we can prepare for them.


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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #294

Post by onewithhim »

Willum wrote:
Monta wrote: [Replying to post 261 by onewithhim]

If God allows satan to have control over nations it is because nations have
already given its control to satan.
So let me get this straight. NATIONS are cogent enough to give themselves over to Satan? and God allows this? There is no Biblical reason for him to do this!
How and why? and how does one know which nations are acting under God's directives, and who is acting under Satan's?

Which ones are God responsible for? How do you know?
Gosh, I think I'm beating a dead horse. Lol. I have said many times that we can tell what's what by studying the Bible! Timothy has said, and so have I and others, that Jehovah is allowing Satan to prove his challenge to God and mankind. Will humans curse God to His face if we are allowed to suffer? And also, again, our original parents indicated to Jehovah that they wanted to do things THEIR way and not HIS way, so He has let them do so.....to prove one way or the other, that His rule is better than Satan's, or Satan's is better.

ALL of the nations are under the power of Satan. (IJohn 5:19; Revelation 12:9)


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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #295

Post by onewithhim »

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 268 by 2timothy316]
And what good would it do if a government handed authority over to God?
The individuals would not be destroyed at Armageddon.

The whole world is going to be ruled by God, whether people like it or not. We have time now to take our stand on one side or the other.

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Post #296

Post by onewithhim »

dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 274 by 2timothy316]

Talking about God and Man together. True Christians are already walking in the way of the Lord.
That is correct. And that means they have already beaten their swords into plowshares, not being involved in any nation's military.

Isaiah 2:4


That is truly "the way of the Lord."

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Post #297

Post by onewithhim »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 276 by 2timothy316]

Errr, ahem.

You've managed to voice you ideas with eloquence.
I have yet to see any real back up of you pontifications.

The Bible is gold, here... and yet you can't do it?
That about wraps it up.
What is post #273 about, then?

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #298

Post by onewithhim »

marco wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
Today, there is no national government that I know of that gives control to God.
Try these then:

Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania. ... Saudi Arabia. ... Sudan. ... Yemen


Naturally our idea of God might not be theirs. I don't believe we have the best possible worlds in these countries. Some kill women for improprieties.

We could also add the Vatican State, which is directly governed by Jesus. "On this rock I will build my church" etc.
Oh come on, Marco. You have been on these threads for years and yet you haven't learned that all those countries have their own God and it's not Jehovah? They SAY they are following the one almighty God but they are not, in reality.

The Vatican, you say, is directly governed by Jesus. What? I think that enough has been said on these threads so that people can see that that is a farce. The Vatican is not any rock on which to build Jesus' true church. Jesus has looked elsewhere to build his church. Wouldn't you say?


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Post #299

Post by 2timothy316 »

onewithhim wrote:
Willum wrote: [Replying to post 276 by 2timothy316]

Errr, ahem.

You've managed to voice you ideas with eloquence.
I have yet to see any real back up of you pontifications.

The Bible is gold, here... and yet you can't do it?
That about wraps it up.
What is post #273 about, then?
I think I was being asked to somehow give him faith through my experiences. However, like in Jesus account of the 10 virgins, no one can keep or provide faith for us. If a person denies the Bible then what can a ol' imperfect human like me prove? :tongue:

I was being asked something they already knew I wouldn't be able to provide. Even if I could, would it even be accepted?

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Post #300

Post by onewithhim »

2timothy316 wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
Willum wrote: [Replying to post 276 by 2timothy316]

Errr, ahem.

You've managed to voice you ideas with eloquence.
I have yet to see any real back up of you pontifications.

The Bible is gold, here... and yet you can't do it?
That about wraps it up.
What is post #273 about, then?
I think I was being asked to somehow give him faith through my experiences. However, like in Jesus account of the 10 virgins, no one can keep or provide faith for us. If a person denies the Bible then what can a ol' imperfect human like me prove? :tongue:

I was being asked something they already knew I wouldn't be able to provide. Even if I could, would it even be accepted?
Oh. I read his post over and over and it seemed to me that he was criticizing you for not using the Bible to back up your statements. That's why I asked him, well what is post 273 about then. But I very well could be way off. :D

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