Immortality of the soul

[Xidorn]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

[mataeux]

They are one and the same. If someone is immortal, they have everlasting life. If someone has everlasting life, they are immortal. It's not confusing.

false. true. false. true.

LUKE 4:34 is an example of a soul whose everlasting life will be revoked. We can see that everlasting life doesn't mean "indestructible" in the case of Satan and the demons and Adam and Eve.

Your "if, then" logical arguments omit the condition, "as long as we obey." No promise by God is broken, rather the condition to obey is our choice.

Please ask a child to read GEN2:9,15-16 and then ask him, "Did Adam have access to the tree of life? Do you think he ate it's fruit?" Become yourself as a child.

Only spiritual beings have everlasting life.

citation required. True, the everlasting life that Christ's brothers put on is immortality. But if JRR Tolkien thought it was 'very good' to create incorruptible yet destructible creatures, how much more would Jehovah want to nurture such sons?

You have not presented any scripture which proves otherwise.

I'm content letting the observer decide. GEN2:9,15-16,17(and it's converse implication) GEN1:31,3:22

[Xidorn]

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eh, where do those verses state that Adam was made with everlasting life?

by supposing, "what if Adam had not eaten from that tree?" or the converse of 2:17, "if you don't eat from that tree, you will not die."

Having access to the tree of life, they could live forever (GEN 3:22)

Genesis 2:16-17: God Jehova knew adam was going to eat from the tree well before he even created adam because he knows everything(Isaiah 29:15-16) so, in knowing that adam wouuld eat from the tree why would he still create adam with everlasting life only to take it away later when adam ate from the tree? Arguing that Jehova created adam with everlasting life implies that jehova does not know everything by giving adam something that He would take away later on.

whether adam was created with or without everlasting life we can see Genesis 2:16-17 is proof that Jehova lied to adam because after eating from the tree he did not die he still lived for some 900 odd more years.the snake told the truth!

[myth-one.com]

Hi Mataeux,

They are one and the same. If someone is immortal, they have everlasting life. If someone has everlasting life, they are immortal. It's not confusing.

false. true. false. true.

It appears that you called this statement true: If someone is immortal, they have everlasting life.

While calling this statement false: If someone has everlasting life, they are immortal.

Hope I deciphered your response correctly.

immortal
1. Not subject to death
2. Never to be forgotten; everlasting

everlasting
1. Lasting forever

So an everlasting life would be a life that lasts forever. And anything that is everlasting is immortal. So everlasting life is the same as immortal.

LUKE 4:34 is an example of a soul whose everlasting life will be revoked. We can see that everlasting life doesn't mean "indestructible" in the case of Satan and the demons and Adam and Eve.

Here is Luke 4:34. You will have to explain to me what you mean by your comment above:

Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

Please ask a child to read GEN2:9,15-16 and then ask him, "Did Adam have access to the tree of life?

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Yes, Adam Had access to the tree of life.

Do you think he ate it's fruit?" Become yourself as a child.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

No, it is obvious to anyone, even a child, that Adam did not eat of the tree of life.

If one eats of the tree of life, they gain everlasting life (see red above). So there is no need to eat from the tree of life more than once! Two or more everlasting lives for one body is still equal to one everlasting life. God separated Adam from the tree of life so that he could not eat its fruit (see purple above).

If Adam had already eaten from the tree of life, there would be no cause to separate him from it " it would already be too late. He would have already gained everlasting life.

So Adam did not eat from the tree of life. All mankind will have to believe in Jesus to gain access to the tree of life and partake of its fruit. All includes Adam:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

Adam did not "overcometh." He "sinneth," and as a result separated himself and all mankind from the tree of life:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12)

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)

I'm content letting the observer decide. GEN2:9,15-16,17(and it's converse implication) GEN1:31,3:22

But youre an observer.

[myth-one.com]

whether adam was created with or without everlasting life we can see Genesis 2:16-17 is proof that Jehova lied to adam because after eating from the tree he did not die he still lived for some 900 odd more years.the snake told the truth!

In your own statement you contradict yourself.

You claim that Jehovah lied because Adam did not die after eating the forbidden fruit.

Then you claim Adam died 900 years later.

So Adam died -- exactly as Jehovah said he would.

Then you claim that the snake told the truth when he told Adam & Eve, "Ye shall not surely die."

But once again, you claimed that Adam died. Thus the snake's statement that he would not die is a lie!

[led by the spirit]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

You would be correct. WE never ate the tree of life but the tree of knowledge.

[Baz]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

You would be correct. WE never ate the tree of life but the tree of knowledge.

Given the choice of the tree of life or the tree of knowledge I think I would go for knowledge; what about the rest of you?

[myth-one.com]

WE never ate the tree of life but the tree of knowledge.

Given the choice of the tree of life or the tree of knowledge I think I would go for knowledge; what about the rest of you?

That's not an easy question.

Suppose John Deaux knew all knowledge at a given time -- then he died.

It seems that an immortal being with the ability to learn would eventually have more knowledge than John had at some point in eternity.

This assumes that the total set of knowledge continues to expand. That is, John knew all knowledge (x) and x continued to increase eternally as new discoveries were made after John's demise.

It also assumes that the future is not included as knowledge -- since it is unknowable. Thus as new things are discovered to exist, they enter the knowledge base at that time, and John could not know them since they were not knowledge during his life.

I enjoy life and would lean towards eating from the tree of life, with the understanding that eternal spiritual life would free me from physical problems which cause pain and suffering.

====================================
We have "somewhat" of a parallel situation in the Bible:

In that night did God appear unto Solomon, and said unto him, Ask what I shall give thee. (II Chronicles 1:7)

Give me now wisdom and knowledge... (II Chronicles 1:10)

Solomon chose wisdom and knowledge and ended up miserable. Thank God He did not have to live eternally as a human!

[mich]

Do we as humans posses an immortal soul as believed by most people? I am of the view that we do not.

As a catholic, I believe in the immortality of the soul but also believe the soul must die because of sin. Death, in such a case means the separation of the soul from the body and the spirit caused by sin.

Andre

[myth-one.com]

As a catholic, I believe in the immortality of the soul but also believe the soul must die because of sin.

How can something be immortal and die?

Death, in such a case means the separation of the soul from the body and the spirit caused by sin.

So man is a combination of a soul, body, and spirit.

Upon "death" the soul becomes separated. The body and spirit remain together as . . . what?

In your first sentence you claimed the soul is immortal although it must die. Yet it still has not died in your second sentense -- it has become "separated."

In your second sentence above, does anything die? The soul, the body, the spirit?

[myth-one.com]

As a catholic, I believe in the immortality of the soul but also believe the soul must die because of sin.

How can something be immortal and die?

Death, in such a case means the separation of the soul from the body and the spirit caused by sin.

So man is a combination of a soul, body, and spirit.

Upon "death" the soul becomes separated. The body and spirit remain together as . . . what?

In your first sentence you claimed the soul is immortal although it must die. Yet it still has not died in your second sentence -- it has become "separated."

In your second sentence above, does anything die? The soul, the body, the spirit?

My mistake: Meant to correct spelling and selected "Quote" instead of "Edit." How can I delete a post using Edit?