Jesus is Lord?

[man]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

[man]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

I think the way most modern bumper-sticker Christians mean it is that "Jesus is God".

But that is not the original meaning of the expression. To Paul, it meant "Jesus is master" our best authority for understanding things Divine and the mediator for access to the Divine.

In the OT/Hebrew Bible "LORD" always meant YHVH, Lord meant Adonai ( "my Lord, referring to YHVH)

Only in the NT does the lower case "Lord" refer to Jesus.

And even in the NT YHWH has been obliterated. Where God's personal name was included in old manuscripts, it is deleted in modern translations. So sometimes where it says "Lord" it might be referring to YHWH. (See Acts 2:34 where Jehovah is definitely referred to.) It's hard to tell, and that is thanks to men through the centuries altering the texts to irradicate God's name.

[/i]

That is sad. I do like and respect the way the NWT has restored some of the NT references to YHVH, when it is clear that OT Scripture is being quoted, and in certain other cases.

What may be encouraging is that even outside of the JW organization, some are rediscovering the importance of the Divine name. Some Evangelicals refer to "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" and an Evangelical couple Peter and Linda-Miller Russo have published "Proclaim His Holy Name" , and also the "Proclaim His Holy Name Bible" which is based on the KJV, but with all the "LORD"s restored to "Yehovah".

I recommend the book and their version of the Bible.

Also, Keith E Johnson's "His Hallowed Name Revealed Again". I don't think he is either a JW or an Evangelical, but this book demonstrates he really understands the importance of The Name as well. Highly recommended.

Awesome! I will look for those books and the "Holy Name Bible." I have The Divine Name King James Bible by Divine Name Publishers, which restores the name in all 6,972 places it occurs in the O.T. and includes it within parentheses where it should be in the N.T.

It's really great that more people are recognizing God's name. Soon the whole planet "will have to know that I am Jehovah" (Ezekiel 38:23). I long for that day.

You long for that day? Why what happens?

[onewithhim]

I've asked people to explain to me how they show that Jesus IS God, but I've had no takers on that! NO ONE has commented on the verses that I cited! Here they are again....tell me that they DON'T say that Jesus is subordinate to God:

I'm fairly sure I've commented on these verses in the past. They do not in any way refute the doctrine of the Trinity. Christ, as God-made-man, cannot in his human position do things without the Father.


"Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, "

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me." He has come down from heaven - the word was made flesh - and we therefore have the Incarnation and the two natures, divine and human. Acting as man, he obeys the will of the Father.

And so on with the other verses where Christ tries to explain that in the hypostatic union with the father and the Spirit, he as a man submits himself to the Father's will. The design of the Trinity is not shattered by any of these quotes because it is accepted that Christ lived as a man and died as a man. You would have to find quotes that refuted the concept of the Trinity not quotes that testified Christ acted truly as a man after his incarnation.

For what my comment is worth, I and others have come up with many more scriptures that show Christ's subordination, even after returning to heaven. There are so many I couldn't quote them all, but if you want to look up a few that would be nice. (I referred to quotes only from the Gospel of John actually because someone had said that that gospel shows that Jesus is God. I believe and always will believe that Jesus wouldn't say that he came to do not his will but the Father's if he was also God. He's either equal to the Father or he is not.)

I Corinthians 8:5,6
I Corinthians 11:3
2 Corinthians 1:3
Philippians 2:9,11
Hebrews 5:7-10
Hebrews 13:8

I'll stop there. If I went on with scriptures showing Jesus' subordination to the Father, Jehovah, I'd be here all evening.

Oh, and you didn't explain how Jesus' statement at John 17:3 supports the trinity. Didn't he say to the Father, "YOU are the only true God"?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by man]

Not in my opinion no.

"Lord" is a title, like "Mr" or "Teacher" and the title "Lord" in scripture is not only applied to YHWH (Jehovah) but to humans, other (false) gods, and as you mention Jesus. Just as calling to two different people "Sir" doesn't imply they are all one and the same person, calling Jesus Lord doesn't of itself imply they are both the same person.


JW

My problem with that interpretation is it smacks of polytheism.

If Jesus and God were the same person the polytheism problem goes away which from what I have read in other places from basic christians to theologists is what gave the Jesus is Lord saying its start.

Polytheism? It is the trinitarian belief that "smacks of polytheism." They tell us that Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Add them up. I get THREE GODS.

I don't see how calling Jesus "Lord" would be polytheistic. "Lord" does not automatically mean "God." There is ONE GOD, the Father....the one that Jesus called "the only true God" (John 17:3), and the one that Paul said of: "Yet for us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER." (I Corinthians 8:6)

ONE GOD. NOT THREE.

There are four things that exist in the supernatural Angels, God, Jesus and Satan.

All of them have supernatural powers and can remain invisible.

God is most powerful of all and the others work for him or against him.

Zeus had the same setup all the other supernatural entities work for him or against him.

Zeus was often referred to as the Father of Gods and men.

No matter what people do they can't account for everything in just one supernatural being.

Whether you realize it or not it's already polytheism no matter how many loopholes like the trinity you try to employ to explain it away.

I do not believe in the Trinity, and when I say "one God, not three Gods," I am explicitly rebuffing the doctrine of the Trinity---the doctrine which teaches that there are THREE GODS. That is polytheism. I believe in one God---the Father.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

I think the way most modern bumper-sticker Christians mean it is that "Jesus is God".

But that is not the original meaning of the expression. To Paul, it meant "Jesus is master" our best authority for understanding things Divine and the mediator for access to the Divine.

In the OT/Hebrew Bible "LORD" always meant YHVH, Lord meant Adonai ( "my Lord, referring to YHVH)

Only in the NT does the lower case "Lord" refer to Jesus.

And even in the NT YHWH has been obliterated. Where God's personal name was included in old manuscripts, it is deleted in modern translations. So sometimes where it says "Lord" it might be referring to YHWH. (See Acts 2:34 where Jehovah is definitely referred to.) It's hard to tell, and that is thanks to men through the centuries altering the texts to irradicate God's name.

[/i]

That is sad. I do like and respect the way the NWT has restored some of the NT references to YHVH, when it is clear that OT Scripture is being quoted, and in certain other cases.

What may be encouraging is that even outside of the JW organization, some are rediscovering the importance of the Divine name. Some Evangelicals refer to "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" and an Evangelical couple Peter and Linda-Miller Russo have published "Proclaim His Holy Name" , and also the "Proclaim His Holy Name Bible" which is based on the KJV, but with all the "LORD"s restored to "Yehovah".

I recommend the book and their version of the Bible.

Also, Keith E Johnson's "His Hallowed Name Revealed Again". I don't think he is either a JW or an Evangelical, but this book demonstrates he really understands the importance of The Name as well. Highly recommended.

Awesome! I will look for those books and the "Holy Name Bible." I have The Divine Name King James Bible by Divine Name Publishers, which restores the name in all 6,972 places it occurs in the O.T. and includes it within parentheses where it should be in the N.T.

It's really great that more people are recognizing God's name. Soon the whole planet "will have to know that I am Jehovah" (Ezekiel 38:23). I long for that day.

You long for that day? Why what happens?

The culmination of all of Bible prophecy. The very theme of the Bible is God's own government that will rule over the earth. Jesus focused on that government and taught us to pray for it.

"Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." (Matt.6:9,10, NASB)

"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44)

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders;...There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7)

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection....They will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6)

[Elijah John]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

I think the way most modern bumper-sticker Christians mean it is that "Jesus is God".

But that is not the original meaning of the expression. To Paul, it meant "Jesus is master" our best authority for understanding things Divine and the mediator for access to the Divine.

In the OT/Hebrew Bible "LORD" always meant YHVH, Lord meant Adonai ( "my Lord, referring to YHVH)

Only in the NT does the lower case "Lord" refer to Jesus.

And even in the NT YHWH has been obliterated. Where God's personal name was included in old manuscripts, it is deleted in modern translations. So sometimes where it says "Lord" it might be referring to YHWH. (See Acts 2:34 where Jehovah is definitely referred to.) It's hard to tell, and that is thanks to men through the centuries altering the texts to irradicate God's name.

[/i]

That is sad. I do like and respect the way the NWT has restored some of the NT references to YHVH, when it is clear that OT Scripture is being quoted, and in certain other cases.

What may be encouraging is that even outside of the JW organization, some are rediscovering the importance of the Divine name. Some Evangelicals refer to "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" and an Evangelical couple Peter and Linda-Miller Russo have published "Proclaim His Holy Name" , and also the "Proclaim His Holy Name Bible" which is based on the KJV, but with all the "LORD"s restored to "Yehovah".

I recommend the book and their version of the Bible.

Also, Keith E Johnson's "His Hallowed Name Revealed Again". I don't think he is either a JW or an Evangelical, but this book demonstrates he really understands the importance of The Name as well. Highly recommended.

Awesome! I will look for those books and the "Holy Name Bible." I have The Divine Name King James Bible by Divine Name Publishers, which restores the name in all 6,972 places it occurs in the O.T. and includes it within parentheses where it should be in the N.T.

It's really great that more people are recognizing God's name. Soon the whole planet "will have to know that I am Jehovah" (Ezekiel 38:23). I long for that day.

As YHVH said through the prophet Isaiah:

... "to me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall swear", Only in YHVH, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength".

(Is 45.23,24)

You may have to go online for these, I have never seen them in the bookstores.

The Divine Name KJV sounds a lot like the "Proclaim His Holy Name" Bible.

But I did find the "Names of God" Bible at Barnes and Noble. That translation uses "Yahweh".

[man]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

I think the way most modern bumper-sticker Christians mean it is that "Jesus is God".

But that is not the original meaning of the expression. To Paul, it meant "Jesus is master" our best authority for understanding things Divine and the mediator for access to the Divine.

In the OT/Hebrew Bible "LORD" always meant YHVH, Lord meant Adonai ( "my Lord, referring to YHVH)

Only in the NT does the lower case "Lord" refer to Jesus.

And even in the NT YHWH has been obliterated. Where God's personal name was included in old manuscripts, it is deleted in modern translations. So sometimes where it says "Lord" it might be referring to YHWH. (See Acts 2:34 where Jehovah is definitely referred to.) It's hard to tell, and that is thanks to men through the centuries altering the texts to irradicate God's name.

[/i]

That is sad. I do like and respect the way the NWT has restored some of the NT references to YHVH, when it is clear that OT Scripture is being quoted, and in certain other cases.

What may be encouraging is that even outside of the JW organization, some are rediscovering the importance of the Divine name. Some Evangelicals refer to "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" and an Evangelical couple Peter and Linda-Miller Russo have published "Proclaim His Holy Name" , and also the "Proclaim His Holy Name Bible" which is based on the KJV, but with all the "LORD"s restored to "Yehovah".

I recommend the book and their version of the Bible.

Also, Keith E Johnson's "His Hallowed Name Revealed Again". I don't think he is either a JW or an Evangelical, but this book demonstrates he really understands the importance of The Name as well. Highly recommended.

Awesome! I will look for those books and the "Holy Name Bible." I have The Divine Name King James Bible by Divine Name Publishers, which restores the name in all 6,972 places it occurs in the O.T. and includes it within parentheses where it should be in the N.T.

It's really great that more people are recognizing God's name. Soon the whole planet "will have to know that I am Jehovah" (Ezekiel 38:23). I long for that day.

You long for that day? Why what happens?

The culmination of all of Bible prophecy. The very theme of the Bible is God's own government that will rule over the earth. Jesus focused on that government and taught us to pray for it.

"Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." (Matt.6:9,10, NASB)

"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44)

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders;...There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7)

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection....They will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6)

Do you think God's own government that will rule over the earth is going to have a problem with Jewish people, Muslim people, gay people, blasphemers and atheists?

[Monta]

[Replying to man]

"Do you think God's own government that will rule over the earth is going to have a problem with Jewish people, Muslim people, gay people, blasphemers and atheists?"

And so-called Christians..

[man]

[Replying to man]

"Do you think God's own government that will rule over the earth is going to have a problem with Jewish people, Muslim people, gay people, blasphemers and atheists?"

And so-called Christians..

Yeah, and so-called Christians who didn’t read their bible.

[marco]

Oh, and you didn't explain how Jesus' statement at John 17:3 supports the trinity. Didn't he say to the Father, "YOU are the only true God"?

You have your theories for your own particular religious group and other people entertain other ideas, without contradicting the Bible.

If one accepts the two natures in Christ, all your quotes are easily explained.


The one you commend I read:


King James Bible
'And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.'


Jesus, according to John, was the WORD from the beginning, incarnated so that as man he might work with men. His human self constantly defers to God, whom Jesus refers to as the Father, when we know very well that this is a figurative expression, since God does not beget in the way humans do.

There is only one God, not two or three. This is what the Trinity attests.
Jesus, acting on earth as the intermediary, is the Word of God made into human flesh. We can then discuss WHY God presented himself in this way and again there are many opinions on what Christ wanted - no doubt you'll have your own. It is useless to quote Scripture and think it illustrates YOUR PRIVATE view, for it illustrates other private views as well. Basically you believe not from proof, but from faith. Unfortunately that is exactly what Muslims and others do.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

I think the way most modern bumper-sticker Christians mean it is that "Jesus is God".

But that is not the original meaning of the expression. To Paul, it meant "Jesus is master" our best authority for understanding things Divine and the mediator for access to the Divine.

In the OT/Hebrew Bible "LORD" always meant YHVH, Lord meant Adonai ( "my Lord, referring to YHVH)

Only in the NT does the lower case "Lord" refer to Jesus.

And even in the NT YHWH has been obliterated. Where God's personal name was included in old manuscripts, it is deleted in modern translations. So sometimes where it says "Lord" it might be referring to YHWH. (See Acts 2:34 where Jehovah is definitely referred to.) It's hard to tell, and that is thanks to men through the centuries altering the texts to irradicate God's name.

[/i]

That is sad. I do like and respect the way the NWT has restored some of the NT references to YHVH, when it is clear that OT Scripture is being quoted, and in certain other cases.

What may be encouraging is that even outside of the JW organization, some are rediscovering the importance of the Divine name. Some Evangelicals refer to "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" and an Evangelical couple Peter and Linda-Miller Russo have published "Proclaim His Holy Name" , and also the "Proclaim His Holy Name Bible" which is based on the KJV, but with all the "LORD"s restored to "Yehovah".

I recommend the book and their version of the Bible.

Also, Keith E Johnson's "His Hallowed Name Revealed Again". I don't think he is either a JW or an Evangelical, but this book demonstrates he really understands the importance of The Name as well. Highly recommended.

Awesome! I will look for those books and the "Holy Name Bible." I have The Divine Name King James Bible by Divine Name Publishers, which restores the name in all 6,972 places it occurs in the O.T. and includes it within parentheses where it should be in the N.T.

It's really great that more people are recognizing God's name. Soon the whole planet "will have to know that I am Jehovah" (Ezekiel 38:23). I long for that day.

As YHVH said through the prophet Isaiah:

... "to me every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall swear", Only in YHVH, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength".

(Is 45.23,24)

You may have to go online for these, I have never seen them in the bookstores.

The Divine Name KJV sounds a lot like the "Proclaim His Holy Name" Bible.

But I did find the "Names of God" Bible at Barnes and Noble. That translation uses "Yahweh".

I went on the website for the Divine Name KJ Bible but it seems to have stopped working. The last message on there was MY message from 4 years ago. I guess that version isn't available any more.

The Jerusalem Bible also uses the translation "Yahweh," as does the NEW Jerusalem Bible. Young's Literal Translation provides "Jehovah" in the O.T. wherever the Tetragrammaton occurs. As God's name is gaining more appreciation, it is ironic that the RCC instituted a recent decree that the Tetragrammaton and its translation into God's name should be REMOVED from all documents, songs, doxologies, and whatever else they call the things that they repeat during services, etc. Imagine, after almost 2,000 years, they want to remove God's name from everything. It's going to be kind of hard, I think, to remove it from where it appears on Catholic church buildings and even St. Peter's in the Vatican.