The Fate of Nonbelievers

[myth-one.com]

Christians believe the Bible to be inspired by God. If so, true Christian theology will be found in the Bible. Likewise, theology which cannot be found in the Bible is not true Christian theology. Participants in this topic will debate the eternal fate of nonbelievers -- as written in the Bible! Nonbelievers will be defined as anyone who does not believe in Jesus -- regardless of their age, intelligence, or any other factor! One's input is valuable only if supported by the Bible. Whether or not one actually believes the Bible to be true is inconsequential! No preference will be given based on religious beliefs, faith, denominations, etc. We will attempt to jointly and finally agree as to what the Bible states believers will be saved from! It will be a learning experience, with no preaching or attempts at "saving" anyone. Hopefully we can save human lives and reduce irrational fears! I encourage all to participate!

As a starting point. This is what I claim the Holy Bible states as to the fate of nonbelievers: (Click on any item below for a full biblical defense of that claim.)

2. The Bible defines two body types, natural and spiritual. God and the angels are spiritual bodied beings, while all other beings are physical. The main difference between the two types is longevity. Spiritual bodies are immortal, while natural bodies will perish. Also, pain is necessary for natural bodies to recognize when they're in harm's way. Spirits are indestructible, and thus need no pain.
3. Two separate and distinct physical deaths may befall mankind, but only the first death is a certainty. Every human will die the first death.
4. And every human who suffers their first death will be resurrected. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be resurrected to everlasting life.
5. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Christ was resurrected first. All dead believers will be resurrected at the second Coming of Christ, and all nonbelievers will be resurrected a thousand years after the Second Coming.
6. All Christians living at the time of the Second Coming will be changed into spiritual beings and meet Christ in the air.
7. At this time, there will be no living human Christians. All will have been born again of the Spirit as spiritual children of God. They will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ.
8. Following the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and face judgment. Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish -- being human. This is their second and everlasting death. They have opted out of life for all eternity.
9. But their names were not written into the Book of Life prior to their judgment! Everyone with their names written in the Book of Life were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. The Book of Life was cleared at that time. So why check it again?
10. The only possible reason is that nonbelievers will have the opportunity to accept salvation during the judgment process! The blank Book of Life is reopened at the beginning of judgment so that names may be written into it. The names written into it will be names of nonbeliever who repent and accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.

Initial Conclusion: The everlasting fate of nonbelievers is eternal death. They will die -- never to live again.

Consequences: No humans will suffer eternally in the lake of fire. Distraught parents who murder their children in their innocent years in an effort to send them to heaven as they have been taught -- have been deceived! Likewise, the millions of deceived Christians who constantly worry about their unsaved family and loved ones being eternally tortured in the fires of hell can now chill out.

Click here to view the current "Fate of Nonbelievers" and supporting biblical evidence as resolved by debaters under this thread.

I will modify attachments linked to from this post as we debate the issue and find corrections or improvements! Hopefully, we will be led to a good result!

[Monta]

[Replying to post 345 by myth-one.com]



"Under the New Testament Covenant, believers shall inherit everlasting life as a gift from God. This everlasting life will be the everlasting life which is due to the man Jesus Christ as His inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant. He offers His inheritance as a free gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins."


This is so way off and has no resemblance to biblical truths and
certainly no resemblance to the Gospels.

"The Word made flesh" was not under any OT covenant.

[JP Cusick]

This is so way off and has no resemblance to biblical truths and
certainly no resemblance to the Gospels.

"The Word made flesh" was not under any OT covenant.

This thread has gone on for 35 pages simply because of them trying to force their belief into being the truth, so the truth has been forced under their force.

See Matthew 11:12 " ... the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. " KJV

The entire topic was settled in my own comment #2 of this beaten down thread.

[myth-one.com]

The entire topic was settled in my own comment #2 of this beaten down thread.

But you could not defend that comment!

Your conclusion was:

As such every person gets saved and not even one (1) gets left out or lost.

And you used this verse to "prove" your claim:

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Paul is writing to followers of Christ in Corinthians -- not every person who ever lived!

Yes, all believers will be saved, regardless of whether their works are burned or not -- because whosoever believeth will be saved.

For example, a Christian teaching that all mankind will be saved, will have that work destroyed by fire -- although the Christian persons teaching that belief will still be saved.

==========================================================================

Your response to this explanation earlier was simply personal, not biblical:

It is only your self and people like you who are trying to shut the gates of God to other people.

It is not being done in 1st Corinthians and not anywhere in the Bible, and God does not shut anyone out.

So you are misguided, and you do a great injustice by trying to shut people out while the truth of God is for all of humanity.

The fires-of-God are applied to every person, and the second death as death to sin applies to everyone.

On the Judgment Day you are in for a really big surprise, because you will never again be shutting the gates of God onto His children.

So let me go ahead and make it perfectly clear. I do not care what people say about me. (Moderators please take that into account.)

I agree that I'm nothing special.

[JP Cusick]

Paul is writing to followers of Christ in Corinthians -- not every person who ever lived!

Apparently you see Paul as writing to your self - but the letter is only to the Corinthians - and yet you are not a Corinthian.

And I certainly am not the same kind of Christian as your self - so Paul must not be writing to me - under your restricted view of the epistle.

I find that Paul was writing about God and Paul wrote about the Gospel message and as such every person on the planet earth can view Paul as referring to our self, and not just to you and your group.

Jesus came for us sinners, and Paul too wrote for the benefit of us sinners, and so most people are not in with your restricted kind of righteousness.

[myth-one.com]

Paul is writing to followers of Christ in Corinthians -- not every person who ever lived!

Apparently you see Paul as writing to your self - but the letter is only to the Corinthians - and yet you are not a Corinthian.

And I certainly am not the same kind of Christian as your self - so Paul must not be writing to me - under your restricted view of the epistle.

I find that Paul was writing about God and Paul wrote about the Gospel message and as such every person on the planet earth can view Paul as referring to our self, and not just to you and your group.

Jesus came for us sinners, and Paul too wrote for the benefit of us sinners, and so most people are not in with your restricted kind of righteousness.

1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul is addressing believers everywhere:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord"

And all whom he addressed will be saved -- as they are all believers.

Thus He can say to all He addressed:

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This does not say that every person in the world will be saved. Only those He addressed the letter to (all believers) will be saved; whether or not their works are burned.

Which is the same thing Jesus stated in John 3:16:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 345 by myth-one.com]

Under the New Testament Covenant, believers shall inherit everlasting life as a gift from God. This everlasting life will be the everlasting life which is due to the man Jesus Christ as His inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant. He offers His inheritance as a free gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

But if Jesus accepted His inheritance by becoming an immortal spirit upon His resurrection, He cannot also give it to us believers. Thus the New Testament Covenant would have no value, as there would be no inheritance.

Hope that clears it up.

It presents a view, but without any evidence to confirm its veracity.

And it seems to paint into a corner and offer no way out.

So no, it doesn't clear anything up but muddies the water.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 345 by myth-one.com]

Under the New Testament Covenant, believers shall inherit everlasting life as a gift from God. This everlasting life will be the everlasting life which is due to the man Jesus Christ as His inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant. He offers His inheritance as a free gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

But if Jesus accepted His inheritance by becoming an immortal spirit upon His resurrection, He cannot also give it to us believers. Thus the New Testament Covenant would have no value, as there would be no inheritance.

Hope that clears it up.

It presents a view, but without any evidence to confirm its veracity.

And it seems to paint into a corner and offer no way out.

So no, it doesn't clear anything up but muddies the water.

Here is what will actually save Christians:

The two testaments of the Bible contain wills or covenants between God and man.

The inheritance received by humans who qualify as heirs under either testament is everlasting life. Those who do not qualify simply perish.

The only way to become an heir to eternal life under the first covenant was to never sin. However, there was a fault in that first testament in that all mankind sinned!

Since the first covenant contained a fault, God created a second or New Testament Covenant.

Here's how that was accomplished:

The Word was made flesh as the man Jesus, and lived a sinless human life under the Old Testament Covenant.

Thus, He became the only human to ever qualify for everlasting life under that covenant. Jesus Christ is written into the Book of Life as an heir to everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant.

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It is appointed that all mankind will die once. So our first death is NOT the death which is the wages of our sins. Both believers and non-believers die once. Jesus died on the cross. The death which is the wages of our sin is what the Bible calls the "second death."

==================================================================

By believing in Jesus under the New Testament Covenant, we become joint heirs with Jesus Christ and our names are written into the Book of Life along with His.

But He will refuse His just reward and freely offer it as a gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior.

Thus everlasting life is a gift of God through Jesus Christ. That is how we are saved.

Christians will receive this gift at the Second Coming, when they will be born again as immortal spirits into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

===================================================================

It's all really simple and logical.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 345 by myth-one.com]

Under the New Testament Covenant, believers shall inherit everlasting life as a gift from God. This everlasting life will be the everlasting life which is due to the man Jesus Christ as His inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant. He offers His inheritance as a free gift to those who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

But if Jesus accepted His inheritance by becoming an immortal spirit upon His resurrection, He cannot also give it to us believers. Thus the New Testament Covenant would have no value, as there would be no inheritance.

Hope that clears it up.

It presents a view, but without any evidence to confirm its veracity.

And it seems to paint into a corner and offer no way out.

So no, it doesn't clear anything up but muddies the water.

It's all really simple and logical.

Maybe so, but that is not how truth is measured.

I repeat:

"It presents a view, but without any evidence to confirm its veracity".

That is, adequate evidence from scripture, especially the New Testament.

[myth-one.com]

It's all really simple and logical.

Maybe so, but that is not how truth is measured.

I repeat:

"It presents a view, but without any evidence to confirm its veracity",

That is, adequate evidence from scripture, especially the New Testament.

It's origin is the scriptures!

[Checkpoint]

It's all really simple and logical.

Maybe so, but that is not how truth is measured.

I repeat:

"It presents a view, but without any evidence to confirm its veracity",

That is, adequate evidence from scripture, especially the New Testament.

It's origin is the scriptures!

Then presenting them specifically should be a piece of cake for you!