This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[polonius]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

The destruction of Jerusalem most certainly did happen which is exactly what is meant by Christ's judgment language. How to we know this? Because this is explicitly what he says:

the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him Jn. 12:48

This should never be conflated with his words pointing out that those who believe should be saved through him, and those who believed left before the destruction of Jerusalem.

RESPONSE: You are seriously off topic. The issue is Jesus' return (or failure to return) as he promised those in his generation ('standing there."). Nothing about the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple is involved.

[shnarkle]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

The destruction of Jerusalem most certainly did happen which is exactly what is meant by Christ's judgment language. How to we know this? Because this is explicitly what he says:

the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him Jn. 12:48

This should never be conflated with his words pointing out that those who believe should be saved through him, and those who believed left before the destruction of Jerusalem.

RESPONSE: You are seriously off topic. The issue is Jesus return or failure to return as he promised those in his generation. Nothing about the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple.

I just provided an argument to show that the destruction of Jerusalem is what is meant by his return. Given that he is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem it stands to reason that's what he meant. So I'm right on topic. Prove me wrong.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 346 by polonius]

RESPONSE: You are seriously off topic. The issue is Jesus' return (or failure to return) as he promised those in his generation ('standing there."

That is the issue you have majored on; it is not the topic this thread is intended to be about.

Which is 'Who is "this generation"?'

[twobitsworth]

Seems to me the bible says a generation is 120 years. The maximum lifespan granted to humans, so this would be the outside limit of what he meant.

[JehovahsWitness]

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but is invisible.

That is incorrect ( I take it "it it" is a typo for "it is")

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.


For more the JW have an official website www.jw.org which I recommend for non-witnesses who wish to make definitive statements of the present day beliefs held by this group to avoid errors such as the one made above.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




RELATED POSTS

Did Jesus indicate he would return in the first century?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 162#752162

Did Jesus fulfill the Messianic promises?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 204#851204

Is prophecy an impediment of free Will?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 997#942997[/quote]

[polonius]

Jehovah's Witness posted:

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.


For more the JW have an official website www.jw.org which I recommend for non-witnesses who wish to make definitive statements of the present day beliefs held by this group to avoid errors such as the one made above.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Doesnt the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

See Wikipedia
From 1925 until 1933, the Watch Tower Society, under Rutherford's leadership, radically changed much of its chronologies after the failure of these eschatological expectations.[121][122] In March 1925, the Watch Tower declared that Christ had been enthroned as king in heaven in 1914, not 1878.[123] A 1927 Watch Tower transferred the timing of the resurrection of the "saints" from 1878 to 1918,[124] explaining that they would be raised as spirit creatures to heavenly life to be with Christ there.[125] The belief that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 was maintained until the early 1930s.[126] Christ's Second Advent was newly explained as a "turning of attention" to the earth, with Christ remaining in heaven"a departure from the earlier teaching of a literal return to earth.[127] The judgment of "Babylon the Great" was changed from 1878 to 1919 with the publication of the book Light in 1930.[128] By 1933, it was taught that Christ had returned invisibly in 1914 and the "last days" had also begun then.[129][130] The teaching that the "great tribulation" had begun in 1914 and was "cut short" in 1918"to be resumed at Armageddon"was discarded in 1969.[131]"

[polonius]

Jehovah's Witness posted:

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.


For more the JW have an official website www.jw.org which I recommend for non-witnesses who wish to make definitive statements of the present day beliefs held by this group to avoid errors such as the one made above.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

RESPONSE: Doesnt the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

See Wikipedia
From 1925 until 1933, the Watch Tower Society, under Rutherford's leadership, radically changed much of its chronologies after the failure of these eschatological expectations.[121][122] In March 1925, the Watch Tower declared that Christ had been enthroned as king in heaven in 1914, not 1878.[123]

A 1927 Watch Tower transferred the timing of the resurrection of the "saints" from 1878 to 1918,[124] explaining that they would be raised as spirit creatures to heavenly life to be with Christ there.[125]. The belief that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 was maintained until the early 1930s[126] Christ's Second Advent was newly explained as a "turning of attention" to the earth, with Christ remaining in heaven"a departure from the earlier teaching of a literal return to earth.[127]

The judgment of "Babylon the Great" was changed from 1878 to 1919 with the publication of the book Light in 1930.[128]

By 1933, it was taught that Christ had returned invisibly in 1914 and the "last days" had also begun then.[129][130] The teaching that the "great tribulation" had begun in 1914 and was "cut short" in 1918"to be resumed at Armageddon"was discarded in 1969.[131]"

"

Will these corrections too be revised by the Watchtower?

[polonius]

Jehovah's Witness posted:

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.


For more the JW have an official website www.jw.org which I recommend for non-witnesses who wish to make definitive statements of the present day beliefs held by this group to avoid errors such as the one made above.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

RESPONSE: Doesnt the Watchtower version of the Second Coming often change? Did any of these prophecies actually happen?

See Wikipedia
From 1925 until 1933, the Watch Tower Society, under Rutherford's leadership, radically changed much of its chronologies after the failure of these eschatological expectations.[121][122] In March 1925, the Watch Tower declared that Christ had been enthroned as king in heaven in 1914, not 1878.[123]

A 1927 Watch Tower transferred the timing of the resurrection of the "saints" from 1878 to 1918,[124] explaining that they would be raised as spirit creatures to heavenly life to be with Christ there.[125]. The belief that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 was maintained until the early 1930s[126] Christ's Second Advent was newly explained as a "turning of attention" to the earth, with Christ remaining in heaven"a departure from the earlier teaching of a literal return to earth.[127]

The judgment of "Babylon the Great" was changed from 1878 to 1919 with the publication of the book Light in 1930.[128]

By 1933, it was taught that Christ had returned invisibly in 1914 and the "last days" had also begun then.[129][130] The teaching that the "great tribulation" had begun in 1914 and was "cut short" in 1918"to be resumed at Armageddon"was discarded in 1969.[131]"

"

"Changing, changing, ever changing" It's difficult to keep up with so many. Is it possible that much of this isn't really inspired?

[shnarkle]

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but is invisible.

That is incorrect ( I take it "it it" is a typo for "it is")

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.

Is this future event also known as The Day of the Lord? or the Day of Judgment? Is that what you're referring to?

[polonius]

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but is invisible.

That is incorrect ( I take it "it it" is a typo for "it is")

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the "parousia" or Christ's presence in kingdom power began in 1914. Christ's "return" as in his returning for the final judgement and destruction of the wicked is a future event.

Is this future event also known as The Day of the Lord? or the Day of Judgment? Is that what you're referring to?

RESPONSE:

By 1933, it was taught that Christ had returned invisibly in 1914 and the "last days" had also begun then.[129][130] The teaching that the "great tribulation" had begun in 1914 and was "cut short" in 1918"to be resumed at Armageddon"was discarded in 1969.[131]"

RESPONSE: Actually, I'm not referring to anything. The info came from Wikipedia.