Is Hell and Those Who Will Go There Eternal?

[barney]

Shalom,

In Mark 9:43-44, et al, we find Scriptures spoken by Jesus Himself, of an ETERNAL HELL, and the LOST who will enter it, in direct reference to a condition where THEIR (personal pronoun) WORM dieth not. While, the thoughts of an Eternal Hell to many of today's Biblical Scholars and Theologians is rapidly becoming 'politically incorrect', the Word of God begs to differ with them nonetheless.

Mark 9:43 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:44 (KJV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

To this end, the premise of this article is NOT to prove an Eternal HELL, which is self evident from simple Scriptural understanding, but rather to shed light on the Eternal WORN that will exist in this unimaginable place of Eternal Punishment.

It takes a greater work of Scriptural gymnastics hammered on the anvil of disbelief to DISPROVE an Eternal Hell, then the Child like FAITH to accept God's sovereign omnipotent WISDOM and authority.

Many have speculated that these aforementioned WORMS are nothing more than some sort of demonic creatures that will devour the flesh of the damned and doomed mankind during their temporal destruction in the eternal and infernal place of Torment. Meanwhile, it is equally presumed that the Lake of Fire is only designed for Satan, his 1/3 Fallen Cohorts, the man AC, and the False Prophet.

However, this is not at all what Scripture reveals, the Bible states that the Righteous will view the 'carcasses' of those who have transgressed against God in a place where the fire is unquenched and THEIR (personal pronoun) WORN shall NEVER die.

Isaiah 66:24 (KJV)
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

To this end then, WHO are these WORMS that shall NEVER DIE which Jesus reveals in Mk. 9:44, et al?

The following Scriptures makes it perfectly clear by direct language SYMBOLIZING who these ETERNAL WORMS are most likely to be, even Jacob himself was addressed by the Lord as a WORM.

Job 25:6 (KJV)
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Psalms 22:6 (KJV)
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Isaiah 41:14 (KJV)
14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

What then can easily be deduced from the above supposition, is that MAN is symbolized by a WORM and respecting Mk. 9:43-44 spoken directly by Jesus Himself, cited above, is referring to the LOST without HOPE in CHRIST.

Therefore, with direct respect to the ETERNAL FLAME, Matt. 25:41 does NOT imply exclusivity with relationship to those who will be deposited into 'Everlasting' Fire.

Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Nowhere in the above Passage is the word ONLY implied with respect to Satan and his Angels... simply PREPARED (made ready). Moreover, this Passage declares that those who have been judged unworthy from among the nations (those on the left hand) will ALSO be cast into the Everlasting Fire.

Meanwhile, Rev.19:20 reveals that the Beast and the False Prophet will be deposited there as well. The Beast and the False Prophet are NOT once mentioned in Matt. 25:41, in exception to exclusivity...for ONLY Satan and his Angels.

Also, Rev. 20:14-15 reveals that subsequent to the Great White Throne Judgment of the DEAD (Second Death) will be deposited in the Everlasting Lake of Fire as well.

To reiterate, in Mk. 9:43-48 Jesus is indeed referring back to the Isaiah prophecy of 66:23-24.

Meanwhile, with respect to the WORM that DIETH NOT. Therefore, if it can shown where something that will NEVER DIE (even Christians are addressed in Scripture relevant to this SAME language - Jn. 11:26, et al.) is indeed NOT INFINITE or Eternal, then you have my undivided attention as well as a realistic defense for your concern, otherwise...

To this end, the KEY to understanding this prophecy is quite simple...those DEAD BODIES who will be in the (their) FIRE that is NOT QUENCED (Eternal Hell) are all those who have transgressed against the LORD:

Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Therefore, Jesus WARNS the grammatical antecedents ETERNAL WORM(s) - those transgressing against the LORD - of Mk. 43, 45 and 47, NOT to go to the place of ETERNAL HELL where THEIR Worm Dies NOT.

As such, the antecedent possessive personal pronoun THEIR with respect to the LXX (greek Septuagint), referring to the CARCASES/DEAD BODIES, is in EXACT agreement with Isaiah 66:24 (the Worm that shall NOT DIE - CARCASE) and the ETERNAL WORM that Jesus revealed in Mk. 44, 47, and 48.

"...In this sentence, the greek (in the septuagint, it is presumably the personal pronoun) their refers back to what? The answer is "carcasses" ("dead bodies")."

Moreover, the POSSESSOR of the ETERNAL WORM (Dead Body) is what is 'Spiritually' INSIDE of the Dead Body/Eternal Worm. To this end, when in Job 25:6, Psalms 22:6, and Isaiah 41:14 when God calls man a WORM He was referring to the 'physical body'. However, with respect to natural man there is ALSO a Soul/Spirit that dwells within the 'temporal' WORM.

Meanwhile, it is duely noted that WORMS eat decaying matter, i.e. dead bodies. However, the ETERNAL WORMS that BELONG (Ownership) to those who have transgressed against the LORD, per Scripture, are NOT 'external' consuming worms separate of the carcase, but rather the DEAD BODIES/CARCASES themselves, that will NEVER Die.

Therefore, if the WORM/DEAD BODY is ETERNAL, then so must its HOST OWNER (THEIR) that 'dwells within' be as well. If the OWNER (Spirit/Soul inside of the ETERNAL WORM) was to vanish away, then Eternal Hell would have Eternal Worms/DEAD BODIES with NO OWNERS. Nonetheless, below is what/where these ETERNAL WORMS will originate from - the DEAD BODIES that will NEVER DIE.

Dan. 12:2, Jn. 5:28-29 and Rev. 20:5 makes if perfectly clear that there will be a Resurrection of the DEAD in Sin (the Resurrection of the Damned).

John 5:28 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Seeing therefore, that the former Carcases of these Damned and Dead resurrected individuals have long since been consumed by other parasites that are/were NOT ETERNAL (natural), then God has/will prepared (created) a NEW BODY for these doomed TRANSGRESSORS as well. Rev. 20:11-15, reveals that the DEAD will come out of their graves (see Jn. 5:28-29 above) and their resurrected DEAD BODIES (newly created - ETERNAL WORMS) will STAND before God to be Judged for THEIR transgressing against the LORD.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

barney

[myth-one.com]

Repeatedly you make the insisted claim that the BODIES of those SINNERS who are RESURRECTED in the SECOND RESURRECTION will be "HUMAN/MORTAL/NATURAL BODIES".

Correct.

To this end, PLEASE be so kind as to post specific Scriptural PROOF of your claim. Moreover when doing so, DO NOT speculate, imply, infer, nor assume - but rather state specific Scriptures where the WORD of God specifically declares that the 2nd. RESURRECTION Bodies of LOST Sinners, will indeed be of HUMAN/MORTAL/NATURAL construct and design.

The Bible defines two type of beings:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

All humans who ever lived will be made alive again, or resurrected:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)

Christians will be resurrected at the Second Coming:

But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

Nonbelievers will be resurrected after the millennium:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

So there are two body types and two resurrections.

Believers shall be resurrected to everlasting life or spiritual bodies:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Refering to Christians resurrected to everlasting life at the Second Coming, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Angels are spiritual beings.

If there are two resurrections for all mankind, and there are only natural and spiritual bodies, and only spiritual bodies posess everlasting life, and Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, then nonbelievers are resurrected with the only other body type which is natural or physical.

I guess God expected we could add one plus one and get two.

First and foremost - what you are teaching is SALVATION subsequent to the mortal FIRST DEATH, for those SINNERS who made the FREE-WILL conscious CHOICE to REJECT Jesus' ATONEMENT and His work of the Cross, as well as, Salvation for those SINNERS who you suggest had never been given the OPPORTUNITY to even hear of God's Plan of Salvation in Yeshua Jesus.

I'm teaching nothing -- what I say is unimportant.

It is the Bible which confirms salvation subsequent to the first death.

Be that as it may - I will address this suggested NONSENSE latter...

I quoted scripture to verify my claims as to what the scriptures state. Address the Bible's claims by refuting those scriptures if you can.

Good luck with that.

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

You have NOT shown in ANY way, literal Scriptural PROOF for your claim, that ALL Sinners will be RESURRECTED in the 2nd. RESURRECTION with MORTAL HUMAN BODIES.

What you have done however is SPECULATED - IMO, and hijacked part of 1 Cor. 15:44, which is clearly being revealed by Apostle Paul, as the IMMORTAL Spiritual RESURRECTED BODIES of the Saints, NOT SINNERS, that will be RESURRECTED by the Spirit of God, and come forth from their PHYSICAL SOWN SEEDS (their MORTAL BODIES) to live ETERNALLY with God and Christ.

Paul makes it very clear in 1 Cor. 15:44 that the RESURRECTED BODIES of the Saints are Sown as a NATURAL BODY but are RAISED as a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is NO mention whatsoever of the Sinner's RESURRECTED Body here...ONLY the Saints.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV)
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Moreover, you equally failed to quote the first part of the 1 Cor. 15:44 Passage...only hijacking the latter part of the verse to suit your own pre-conceived notion of the two BODY types - Natual and Spiritual - one Sinner one Saint, respectively.

Nonetheless, as I stated before - Paul is revealing the NATURAL and the latter RESURRECTED Spiritual BODY of the BELIEVER in 1 Cor. 15:44 - and NOT the Sinner.

Moreover, Paul declares further that NATURAL preceeds the SPIRITUAL.

1 Corinthians 15:46 (KJV)
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

However, you ASSUME since there are indeed TWO Resurrections (1st. the Saved and 2nd. the Lost) and Paul only reveals TWO types of BODIES (Natual and Spiritual), seeing that Paul clearly reveals that the BELIEVER will receive the Resurrected Spiritual Body, you then take it upon yourself (IMO) to INFER that the Sinner will then receive, what is left over -the NATURAL/MORTAL Body...your flawed logic.

Paul made NO such declaration - YOU did, in your IMPLIED and FAILED speculative mathematical ADDITION cited below. Meanwhile, you equally jump to the conclusion that ONLY the Saints will exist ETERNALLY and have a SPIRITUAL Body - even though Paul ONLY reveals information regarding the 1st. RESURRECTION respective to the BELIEVER, and NOT the Sinner.

If there are two resurrections for all mankind, and there are only natural and spiritual bodies, and only spiritual bodies posess everlasting life, and Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, then nonbelievers are resurrected with the only other body type which is natural or physical.

I guess God expected we could add one plus one and get two.

Moreover, you declare that those who will be consigned to the Lake of Fire - will "QUICKLY" cease to exist.

These are the living human bodies which are cast into and quickly perish in the lake of fire, and whose "worms" never perish because they never lived.

However, you did not address the Beast and the False Prophet who were cast alive into the Lake of Fire - and 1000 years later are still there.

Revelation 19:20 (KJV)
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:7 (KJV)
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20:10 (KJV)
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In summary, what you are teaching is ENTIRELY premised and based on your own personal IMO - and most certainly NOT Scripture.

You even ADMIT such - "I guess God expected we could add one plus one and get two."

Sorry, but I do NOT subscribe to your illogical SPECULATION.

barney

[myth-one.com]

However, you ASSUME since there are indeed TWO Resurrections (1st. the Saved and 2nd. the Lost) and Paul only reveals TWO types of BODIES (Natual and Spiritual), seeing that Paul clearly reveals that the BELIEVER will receive the Resurrected Spiritual Body, you then take it upon yourself (IMO) to INFER that the Sinner will then receive, what is left over -the NATURAL/MORTAL Body...your flawed logic.

The gift, reward, or inheritance of the saved is everlasting life:

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred-fold, and shall inherit eternal life. (Matthew 19:29)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. (I John 2:25)

So believers spoken about by Paul awaken to everlasting spiritual life.

There is a second resurrection of nonbelievers after the millennium.

There are two body types, natural and spiritual.

The reward of the saved is a spiritual body.

Is there any reason why the nonbelievers would be resurrected to anything but a natural body?

Do they receive the reward of the saved, even though their names are not written in the Book of Life as believers?

If they are resurrected to everlasting life, how can they perish as the Bible states:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

There are two body types: natural and spiritual.

Believers do not perish.

Nonbelievers do perish.

Believers are resurrected with everlasting spiritual bodies.

Nonbelievers are resurrected with what type of Body so that they can perish in the second death if they do not repent and accept Jesus as their Savior?

Ask a child to give you the answer.

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

I am NOT asking a CHILD to give me an answer to YOUR flawed theology - I am directly asking YOU as its author.

Therefore, once again - PLEASE show me your NON-SPECULATIVE (IMO) Scriptural PROOF that those SINNERS who will be in the 2nd. RESURRECTION will indeed be raised in a MORTAL HUMAN BODY?

What you are asking we readers to do, is blindly accept your misguided IMO that suggests God is INCAPABLE of creating an IMMORTAL Spiritual Body for the SINNER as well, as a reciprocal of the BELIEVER'S IMMORTAL Spiritual Body, even though Jesus declared in Matt. 25:46 that the GOATS (UNRIGHTEOUS SINNER) on the LEFT HAND shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.

Matthew 25:46 (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Therefore, in your ill conceived notion - the SINNER, in order to support your trivialization of an ETERNAL Hell and those who will go there, must have a MORTAL Body so they can EXPIRE "QUICKLY"...a SPIRITUAL Body will simply not do. However, this is nothing more than your own personal OPINION and a clear CONTRADICTION to Jesus' and God's own WORDS.

Unless you can Scripturally PROVE your flawed supposition then you have NOTHING more than your IMO.

Take a NUMBER...

barney

[myth-one.com]

I am NOT asking a CHILD to give me an answer to YOUR flawed theology - I am directly asking YOU as its author.

Ok, do it your way. Nonetheless, the Bible states:

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (II Timothy 3:15)

What you are asking we readers to do, is blindly accept your misguided IMO that suggests God is INCAPABLE of creating an IMMORTAL Spiritual Body for the SINNER as well, as a reciprocal of the BELIEVER'S IMMORTAL Spiritual Body, even though Jesus declared in Matt. 25:46 that the GOATS (UNRIGHTEOUS SINNER) on the LEFT HAND shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.

God is capable of creating spiritual bodies for nonbelievers, but why would He? God created immortal angels and some of them rebelled. Why would God want to create more everlasting rebels through man? Wouldn't that be dumb?

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Yes, the punishment is everlasting. Likewise, the reward of the saved is everlasting:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

The wages of sin is death and death is an everlasting punishment. Those nonbelievers suffering the second death never live again!

If God created mankind as everlasting spiritual beings, the punishment of death has no meaning!

Therefore, in your ill conceived notion - the SINNER, in order to support your trivialization of an ETERNAL Hell and those who will go there, must have a MORTAL Body so they can EXPIRE "QUICKLY"...a SPIRITUAL Body will simply not do. However, this is nothing more than your own personal OPINION and a clear CONTRADICTION to Jesus' and God's own WORDS.

No, it is what the Bible states as inspired by God:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

One characteristic of mankind is that we all die.

Since we die, we have mortal bodies.

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

You once again return to your unsupportable declaration and claim, WITHOUT Scriptural EVIDENCE, that when Sinners are raised from the dead in the 2nd. Resurrection - they will have MORTAL Bodies.

The wages of sin is death and death is an everlasting punishment. Those nonbelievers suffering the second death never live again!

If God created mankind as everlasting spiritual beings, the punishment of death has no meaning!

You do not seem to understand the difference between being SPIRITUALLY DEAD vs. PHYSICALLY DEAD.

In Matt. 8:22 Jesus told one of His Disciples to "Let the Dead Bury Their Dead" - they were SPIRITUALLY DEAD in their Sins. However, at that time their MORTAL Bodies were still ALIVE.

Again, "And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness." (Romans 8:10)

Moreover, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead." (James 2:26)

Likewise, "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

In another example, Apostle Paul commanded that the FORNICATOR should have his FLESH (his MORTAL Body) turned over to Satan, that his SPIRIT might be Saved in the day of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 5:5 (KJV)
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The SECOND DEATH consists of casting the IMMORTAL SPIRIT of the Sinner, that will reside within an IMMORTAL Resurrected BODY - into the Lake of Fire.

In summary, the Beast and the False Prophet will have been in the Lake of Fire 1,000 years before Satan joins them...neither of them will have burned up during this said 1,000 years.

How much more direct EVIDENCE do you actually need before you realize that it is the SPIRIT that gives the MORTAL FLESH its life?

When Jesus raised the young maiden from the DEAD - her SPIRIT came AGAIN. However, up to the point of her raising from the dead, her MORTAL Body lay lifeless.

Luke 8:55 (KJV)
55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

So PLEASE - do NOT attempt to tell me that the SPIRIT is NOT IMMORTAL, when you are completely unable to post ONE SINGLE Scripture that directly states your IMO CLAIM of 2nd. Resurrection Sinners being raised in MORTAL Bodies.

barney

[myth-one.com]

In summary, the Beast and the False Prophet will have been in the Lake of Fire 1,000 years before Satan joins them...neither of them will have burned up during this said 1,000 years.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

According to this verse, only the devil is tormented day and night forever.

How much more direct EVIDENCE do you actually need before you realize that it is the SPIRIT that gives the MORTAL FLESH its life?

God is a Spirit:

So is it that God gives mankind their mortal flesh life?

Or are all mankind Spirits?

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

With respect to your heretical CLAIM that there will be SALVATION AFTER DEATH...please answer the following simple question.

Jesus declared in Matt. 10:33 that WHOSOEVER would DENY Him before men - He (Jesus) would likewise DENY them before His Father.

Matthew 10:33 (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

PLEASE show me where exactly in Scripture, when a SINNER who dies in complete DENIAL of Jesus, that Jesus subsequent to the MORTAL death of this SINNER, RECENDS His DENIAL of him, before the Father?

In order for you to support your CLAIM that there is SALVATION subsequent to MORTAL DEATH - you must PROVE by direct Scriptures (NO IMO's) that Jesus will RETRACT His DENIAL of this said SINNER after he DIES...unless, you are suggesting that a SINNER can be SAVED AFTER his DEATH even in the face of Jesus DENYING him before the Father.

Luke 13:25 (KJV)
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Matthew 7:23 (KJV)
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

barney

[barney]

Shalom myth-one,

Thank you for responding.

With respect to man having a MORTAL BODY and his IMMORTAL SPIRIT that dwells within his MORTAL BODY, please kindly explain what the following Passage means to you.

2 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV)
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

barney

[myth-one.com]

With respect to your heretical CLAIM that there will be SALVATION AFTER DEATH...please answer the following simple question.

Jesus declared in Matt. 10:33 that WHOSOEVER would DENY Him before men - He (Jesus) would likewise DENY them before His Father.

In order for you to support your CLAIM that there is SALVATION subsequent to MORTAL DEATH - you must PROVE by direct Scriptures (NO IMO's) that Jesus will RETRACT His DENIAL of this said SINNER after he DIES...unless, you are suggesting that a SINNER can be SAVED AFTER his DEATH even in the face of Jesus DENYING him before the Father.

You are assuming that all nonbelievers deny Jesus -- but that isn't so.

What about the billions of people who never even heard the name Jesus. What about everyone who lived before Jesus was even born? These could not be saved under the Old Testament, for all had sinned. What about those mentally incompetent? What about children who died before they understood about Jesus? What about abortions?

None of these ever denied Jesus. Likewise, they never believed in Jesus.

So what happens to them if there is no salvation after death?