Created immortal (indestructable)?

[JehovahsWitness]

To my knowledge "immortality" is only spoken of as being a reward for certain faithful. What is the scriptural basis for saying "humans" were originally created immortal*?

- do you believe Satan is immortal?
- do you believe the wicked are immortal?

- do you believe God can destroy them (as in put an end to their existence) but will never choose to do this?

- do you believe God cannot (does not have the ability to) destroy them (put an end to their existence)?

Why?


*by immortal I mean basically "indestructable"

[Monta]

[Replying to Claire Evans]


He's like God in that he just was. God wasn't created. I believe he is eternal. Revelation 20:10 supports that.


"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."//

There's nothing in the Bible to insinuates the idea, that satan/devil
'just like God he just was'.
Rev. 20:10 only says where he will be in the future.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 32 by Claire Evans] are you indicating that Satan is not a created being?

That is what I'm saying.

If he is not a created being, what exactly is he?

Are you saying he is eternal or is not?

He's like God in that he just was. God wasn't created. I believe he is eternal. Revelation 20:10 supports that.


"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

If Revelation 20:10 is to be used to support the idea that Satan is eternal, it also supports the idea that the beast and the false prophet are eternal.

I think not.

Let us not be so quick as to take literally what is in Revelation, but bear in mind that much of it is couched in metaphors.

Let us not read more into verses than are there.

[tam]

If Revelation 20:10 is to be used to support the idea that Satan is eternal, it also supports the idea that the beast and the false prophet are eternal.

Exactly!

I don't really know what to add to that, lol.

The beast is a thing, not a literal living creature (although literal living creatures are deceived by this beast).



Peace to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

If Revelation 20:10 is to be used to support the idea that Satan is eternal, it also supports the idea that the beast and the false prophet are eternal.

Exactly!

I don't really know what to add to that, lol.

The beast is a thing, not a literal living creature (although literal living creatures are deceived by this beast).

Peace to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Nice to see we are on the same page, yet again!

Not that we don't have some differences of opinion too.

Each of us is a work in progress, and each sees "through a glass darkly".

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 32 by Claire Evans] are you indicating that Satan is not a created being?

That is what I'm saying.

If he is not a created being, what exactly is he?

Are you saying he is eternal or is not?

He's like God in that he just was. God wasn't created. I believe he is eternal. Revelation 20:10 supports that.


"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Some of us have been trying to tell you all that the phrase in Revelation that says that the Devil and the Beast, etc., will be tormented for ever and ever.....that is METAPHORICAL, meaning that they will be prevented from doing anything, forever and ever. They will not be tortured, they will just be OBLITERATED. What does the root word for TORMENTED mean? It is as a JAILER "torments" a prisoner by locking him up so that he can't do anything or bother anybody again. God will prevent Satan and this wicked system of things from ever harming anyone again by "locking them up" permanently, so they can't do anything---ANNIHILATING them---causing them to DISAPPEAR. That is what Revelation means.

Read further than Revelation 20:10. What does 20:14 say? DEATH AND HADES [HELL, KJV] are "thrown" into the lake of fire. How can you throw death????? How can you throw Hades???? It is METAPHORICAL, people. It means that they are destroyed.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 20 by Claire Evans]
That is an astounding statement. That makes him a God in every sense of the word. Your concept however would remove some of the doctrinal difficulties surrounding Christianity. Now a true struggle would be possible eliminating the nagging concern that God is psychoticaly playing with his creation. Which of these Gods created our existence and reality?

If Satan was not a god, which is a generic word, then where does his supernatural powers come from?

If God created Satan, He clearly is playing around in a very nefarious way before look at the suffering that has ensued.

I believe both God and Satan are responsible for our reality. God created us but Satan corrupted us. I believe genetically. I will give you an example of how God and Satan work in an analogy:

Neutral atoms can be turned into positively charged ions by removing one or more electrons

God is the positively charged ion when Satan's power has been disabled in a situation (removing one or more electrons).

Atoms that gain extra electrons become negatively charged.

The more sin people are responsible for, the more powerful Satan becomes (negatively charged).

It's a constant battle between good and evil like in a atom where it is constantly positively and negatively charged.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... d-a-proton

Have you not taken into consideration that Satan was once an obedient angel and then followed his own selfish desires to be worshipped? He is most definitely "a god." 2 Corinthians 4:4 calls him such. "A god" is just a powerful individual, or anything that is worshipped or placed first in someone's life. Neither he nor any other being in the universe is equal to Jehovah.

Satan has supernatural powers because all angels have them. The good angels just wait for permission or instruction from Jehovah before they use them. God did not create Satan as Satan. He was once a loyal angel.

He was given the allowance to try and prove his challenge to Jehovah that every human will curse Him to His face if He allows suffering to happen to them. Jehovah has allowed Satan to wreak havoc on this world for 6,000 or so years. When Satan's time is up, the issue need never come up again, ever.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 46 by onewithhim]
I would imagine that if it happened once it could happen again?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 46 by onewithhim]


"Satan has supernatural powers because all angels have them. The good angels just wait for permission or instruction from Jehovah before they use them. God did not create Satan as Satan. He was once a loyal angel."

True to Scripture.

[rikuoamero]

Any created being can be deleted. In fact God could simply will them out of existence.

Unproven premise.

I find this incredibly ironic. The site's resident promoter of PCE, who has long disregarded the concept of evidence when it comes to his own theology...says to another poster that their claim regarding God is an 'unproven premise'.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to Claire Evans]


He's like God in that he just was. God wasn't created. I believe he is eternal. Revelation 20:10 supports that.


"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."//

There's nothing in the Bible to insinuates the idea, that satan/devil
'just like God he just was'.
Rev. 20:10 only says where he will be in the future.

So what if it isn't in the Bible? People must just think. He has the same powers of God like omniscience and omnipresence. Therefore it is not hard to believe he has the same ability to always have existed.