Messiah's 2nd Coming?

[Elijah John]

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?

Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?

[onewithhim]

Wow, EJ, I am again astounded by your creativity and application of logic - and if I am following your lead appropriately, I think I can answer your question succinctly, in the way you hoped others would see in the value of your reason:

Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around?

Yes, yes it was.
It could only be a result of failure.

Oh, this is very depressing. There are people who actually think that Jesus failed!

No, no he didn't. He said, "I have conquered the world!" (John 16:33) He accomplished exactly what he set out to accomplish at that time. He knew that in the far future he would come back and take over the rulership of the world from Satan and his minions. This is clear and plain to anyone studying the Scriptures and not ignoring many passages while accepting others.

.

[onewithhim]

So you think more like your Jesuit tutor than you do Christ? I wonder which one is in error.

I am not having a discussion with Jesus but if you think you speak for Jesus, then what can I say? I have pointed out many times that yours is an INTERPRETATION and the Jesuit's view is also an interpretation.

Let us return to what we are discussing: the meaning of Christ's words. I have an interpretation and so have you. Jesus hasn't declared himself.

Well, I think he did, and his meanings are different than the Jesuit's.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 41 by onewithhim]

No, Jesus didn't fail.
God did.
Divine Insight correctly pointed out that the only reason you sacrifice your only son would be because you were in such dire straights you had to.

God gave his only son so that a fraction of humanity would escape Satan's wrath.
Is he wrong?
Isn't failing to save the majority of humanity, when one desires to do so, failure?

[JehovahsWitness]

Isn't failing to save the majority of humanity, when one desires to do so, failure?

God doesn't desire to save the majority of humanity, he desires to save all the deserving. Since everyone that is judged as deserving of life will get it, his purpose will be 100% successful.

It is no "failure" on His part that the majority of mankind will be destroyed, although it no doubt saddens him. He wants to destroy the wicked, if he didn't he wouldn't do it (an omnipotent God is not obliged to do anything he doesn't want to do). Having given humans free will he would love for them all to make the right choices and obey him, but Jehovah is fully aware that will not be the case and evidently he has no desire to remove people's right to chose to disobey Him while they are alive or to compromise His own perfect standards.

JOHN 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Only 8 people survived the deluge in Noah's day, that shows how God feels about "the majority"!

[polonius]

jw posted:

Only 8 people survived the deluge in Noah's day, that shows how God feels about "the majority"!

RESPONSE: You do realize that the Noah story is fictional, don't you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_flood_narrative

Although many religious groups consider the story to be largely allegorical, there are still many groups and individuals who believe the story to be literally true. Since at least the 19th century, scholarly consensus has been, and evidence from scientific investigation has shown, that the story cannot be literally true, and among scholars it is categorized along with other flood myths as a legend.


A flood myth or deluge myth is a narrative in which a great flood, usually sent by a deity or deities, destroys civilization, often in an act of divine retribution. Parallels are often drawn between the flood waters of these myths and the primeval waters found in certain creation myths, as the flood waters are described as a measure for the cleansing of humanity, in preparation for rebirth. Most flood myths also contain a culture hero, who "represents the human craving for life".[1]
The flood myth motif is found among many cultures as seen in the Mesopotamian flood stories, Deucalion in Greek mythology, the Genesis flood narrative, the Hindu texts from India, Bergelmir in Norse Mythology, in the lore of the K'iche' and Maya peoples in Mesoamerica, the Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwa tribe of Native Americans in North America, the Muisca, and Cañari Confederation, in South America, and the Aboriginal tribes in southern Australia.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 45 by polonius.advice]

No it was a historical account. If you believe it to be fictional feel free to do so. And if I had even the slightest interest in discussing your belief regarding the authenticity of scripture on this matter I would be over in C&A subforum doing so. As it is we are in Theology, Doctrine and Dogma, if you a doctrinal point to make that is relevant to my post, feel free to make it.

Otherwise please try your very best to have an excellent weekend,

JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 44 by JehovahsWitness]

I'll stand corrected, since God wants to save all humanity.

Isn't failing to save the all of humanity, when one desires to do so, an epic failure?

[McCulloch]

God doesn't desire to save the majority of humanity, he desires to save all the deserving.

I am happy for you that you know the desires of God. In fact, it is refreshing to hear an opinion expressed that god's grace is not unmerited favor, but that the rewards of the faithful are deserved.

First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[marco]

Well, I think he did, and his meanings are different than the Jesuit's.

Concession at last. You THINK Christ's message is different from the Jesuit's. We can all think but sometimes our thoughts aren't correct. It is a pity if we base our life's beliefs on what we THINK is correct but on what is erroneous.

[JehovahsWitness]

God doesn't desire to save the majority of humanity, he desires to save all the deserving.

I am happy for you that you know the desires of God.

Thank you, I'm quite happy myself. It does give one a sense of security.

Be well,

JW