Was the doctrine of the 2nd coming of Jesus forumulated because he failed to accomplish Messianic expectations the first time around? I.e., universal peace and justice, the redemption of Israel from it's enemies?
Where was it written in the "Old" Testament/Hebrew Bible that the Messiah would need to come twice to accomplish his Messianic role?
Messiah's 2nd Coming?
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Elijah John
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Messiah's 2nd Coming?
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #52
Willum wrote: [Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]
McCulloch wouldn't want you to challenge your ideas, or make you uncomfortable or unhappy in any way, I am sure.
Well if you are not being sarcastic, I'll say that's a nice of you to be concerned with my happiness. Such a kind sentiment, thanks.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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onewithhim
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Post #53
It is NO failure on God's part when any part of humanity CHOOSES to not accept His channel of salvation. Why would God force people to be His friend and follow His instructions? Jehovah sent His Son so that ALL humans could live. If some humans reject His offer, that is on them.Willum wrote: [Replying to post 41 by onewithhim]
No, Jesus didn't fail.
God did.
Divine Insight correctly pointed out that the only reason you sacrifice your only son would be because you were in such dire straights you had to.
God gave his only son so that a fraction of humanity would escape Satan's wrath.
Is he wrong?
Isn't failing to save the majority of humanity, when one desires to do so, failure?
.
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Willum
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Post #54
[Replying to post 53 by onewithhim]
Hmmm... so imagine you (and the rest of you humans) are wandering in a unlitten maze.
I get to call directions out to you that will prevent you from falling into a pit of ravenous flaming penguins. Just to make it religious, the flaming penguins are invisible and cast no light.
It is my goal to stop you from doing so.
I presume you don't want to fall into a pit of ravenous flaming penguins.
I certainly don't want you to fall into a pit of flaming burning penguins.
Yet my track record for saving y'all from falling is 1 in 100.
What would you make of it?
Now, imagine I had the power to provide light, eliminate the pit and the penguinlums, and in fact do anything else.
Yet my record for saving y'all is still 1 in a hundred.
What would you say about that?
Obviously it is YOUR fault for choosing the penguins over me.
Hmmm... in hindsight, I'm not sure I blame you.
But that's not the point, the point is the best this God can do after sacrificing his son to Satan is to save a few of you.
Smart as he is.
Powerful as he is.
He isn't powerful enough or persuasive enough to save but a sliver of a fraction of y'all.
Hmmm... so imagine you (and the rest of you humans) are wandering in a unlitten maze.
I get to call directions out to you that will prevent you from falling into a pit of ravenous flaming penguins. Just to make it religious, the flaming penguins are invisible and cast no light.
It is my goal to stop you from doing so.
I presume you don't want to fall into a pit of ravenous flaming penguins.
I certainly don't want you to fall into a pit of flaming burning penguins.
Yet my track record for saving y'all from falling is 1 in 100.
What would you make of it?
Now, imagine I had the power to provide light, eliminate the pit and the penguinlums, and in fact do anything else.
Yet my record for saving y'all is still 1 in a hundred.
What would you say about that?
Obviously it is YOUR fault for choosing the penguins over me.
Hmmm... in hindsight, I'm not sure I blame you.
But that's not the point, the point is the best this God can do after sacrificing his son to Satan is to save a few of you.
Smart as he is.
Powerful as he is.
He isn't powerful enough or persuasive enough to save but a sliver of a fraction of y'all.
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onewithhim
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Post #57
One of the Roman Emperors wrote notices in very small print and high up. When people ignored them they were punished or fined.onewithhim wrote:
Why would God force people to be His friend and follow His instructions? Jehovah sent His Son so that ALL humans could live. If some humans reject His offer, that is on them.
Your God appears to have adopted the same strategy with his "instructions." It is obvious that if God wanted to issue "instructions" he could do it in a way that is beyond dispute. Instead we have bits and pieces of ambiguous text whose authorship doesn't seem to be God's. He didn't sign anything. So please do not talk about people "choosing to ignore" his "instructions." You mean that you have formed your own set of instructions and it is irritating that other folk choose not to follow what you have thought up. Has it occurred to you that you might be wrong?
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McCulloch
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Post #58
I don't have the intellectual dishonesty required for that sense of security. Would you please address the issue I raised, namely that you and Paul seem to disagree on both human merit and god's will.JehovahsWitness wrote:Thank you, I'm quite happy myself. It does give one a sense of security.McCulloch wrote:I am happy for you that you know the desires of God.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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JehovahsWitness
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Post #59
[Replying to post 53 by onewithhim]
I couldn't agree more, it has never been part of God's purpose to force people into obedience. Love offered out of obligation is no love at all.
JW
I couldn't agree more, it has never been part of God's purpose to force people into obedience. Love offered out of obligation is no love at all.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Willum
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Post #60
[Replying to post 59 by JehovahsWitness]
And yet if you don't obey, you go to hell.
Sometimes I wonder if you even read the Bible.
Let me guess, JWs have some special clause in Christianity excluding them from what other Christians need to do to go to heaven, right?
Something about what you believe, that excludes you from doing what the rest of Christianity needs to do?
And yet if you don't obey, you go to hell.
Sometimes I wonder if you even read the Bible.
Let me guess, JWs have some special clause in Christianity excluding them from what other Christians need to do to go to heaven, right?
Something about what you believe, that excludes you from doing what the rest of Christianity needs to do?
