Matthew 28:19

[Petrameansrock]

So this scripture is the reason almost every major denomination baptizes in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is also a major argument for the Trinity. But as we have seen in the past with 1 John, there are instances where scripture has been touched by man to promote Trinitarian doctrine. My question is do you think this scripture is valid or invalid? I know we have a lot of people who aren't Trinitarians on here, so that's why I ask.

[myth-one.com]

No, it means true Christians will be seen going from door to door, preaching in the streets, preaching where ever people can be found telling anyone that will listen about the kingdom and this will be happening in every nation on earth.

Yes, the "great commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

And yes, this event of spreading the gospel to all nations must be accomplished before the second coming can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Your error is assuming that the "church" will be the implement which successfully accomplishes this task of spreading the gospel message to all nations.

And that is incorrect according to the scriptures.

The second coming is described in Revelation 19:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

The "Word of God" refers Jesus:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

This return of the Word could not occur until the gospel had been taught to all the world. So that event has occurred before these verses.

In fact, it was performed by an angel of God only a few chapters prior to Revelation 19:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Since God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur, then the Christian Church failed to complete their assigned mission!

If "true Christians will be seen going from door to door, preaching in the streets, preaching where ever people can be found telling anyone that will listen about the kingdom and this will be happening in every nation on earth" as you state, then the only reconciliation with Revelation Chapter 19 is that these true Christians are spreading the wrong message!

[JehovahsWitness]

No, it means true Christians will be seen going from door to door, preaching in the streets, preaching where ever people can be found telling anyone that will listen about the kingdom and this will be happening in every nation on earth.

Yes, the "great commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all

So why did Jesus command his followers to preach worldwide and assure them he would be backing their efforts all the way to its accomplishment? Was he setting them up to failure? Or was he commanding them to do something he did not WANT them to do?

Would this not be like asking your nanny to take your child to the park and then calling the police and charging her with kidnapping for taking your child to the park? Or instructing your nanny to take your child to the park when you know full well they are paralized in hospital and cannot do it and you have arranged to do it yourself?

At what point in history were Christians instructed to STOP preaching the gospel, stop spreading the good news and stop speaking about the kingdom and Jesus Christ - so that "false Christians" can be easily identified (false christians being the only ones that preach) ? TRUE Christians being the ones that keep the kingdom good news to themselves!


JW

[myth-one.com]

No, it means true Christians will be seen going from door to door, preaching in the streets, preaching where ever people can be found telling anyone that will listen about the kingdom and this will be happening in every nation on earth.

God commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

This must be completed before the second coming and end of time can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

However, God has to send an angel to spread the gospel to all the world shortly before His second coming:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Conclusion: The church will fail in spreading the gospel to all the world.

Do you agree?

Yes or no.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 62 by myth-one.com]

Interesting, so do you feel inclinded to address any of the questions I asked here?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 73#p898273

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 62 by myth-one.com]

Interesting, so do you feel inclinded to address any of the questions I asked here?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 273#898273

So why did Jesus command his followers to preach worldwide and . . .

That was not the command.

They were commanded to preach the gospel worldwide.

At what point in history were Christians instructed to STOP preaching the gospel, stop spreading the good news and stop speaking about the kingdom and Jesus Christ?"

No such command was ever given.

Question for you:

According to the scriptures, who will succeed in teaching the gospel good news to all the nations?

[JehovahsWitness]

So why did Jesus command his followers to preach worldwide and . . .

That was not the command.

They were commanded to preach the gospel worldwide.

So why were Christians commanded to preach the gospel worldwide? Was he telling them to do something he didn't WANT them to do?

At what point in history were Christians instructed to STOP preaching the gospel, stop spreading the good news and stop speaking about the kingdom and Jesus Christ?"

No such command was ever given.

So then Christians would continue to preach the gospel worldwide right up to the "conclusion of the system of things" because this is what Jesus WANTS us to do?

Yes or No?


If yes then ...

"true Christians will be seen going from door to door, preaching in the streets, preaching where ever people can be found telling anyone that will listen about the gospel and doing this worldwide"

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Question for you:

According to the scriptures, who will succeed in teaching the gospel good news to all the nations?

Your focus on "success" (and by implication "failure") and WHO will finally be given this "ticket" is IMO fleshly thinking: I know of no scripture that uses the word "success" in this regard so it is no concern to me above and beyond that I know whatever God's purpose is will have certain success. Your focus who gets credit for what is wordly thinking.

ALL God's servants (human or angelic) are simply instruments of the Almighty. Everyone has their role: Christians are commanded to DO something, we were not commanded to stop doing it and were told to do that thing "worldwide". Those of us that truly love Jesus OBEY him and simply do what he asked us to do We leave the issue of success or failure in the hands of the Almighty.

Is that's okay with you?

MATTHEW 25: 22-30

To the one with the two talents also came and said, ‘Sir, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more.’ 23 His master answered, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You have been faithful with a few things. I will put you in charge of many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’

24 Then the one who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Sir, I knew that you were a hard man, harvesting where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’

26 But his master answered, ‘Evil and lazy slave! So you knew that I harvest where I didn’t sow and gather where I didn’t scatter? 27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received my money back with interest! 28 Therefore take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten. 29 For the one who has will be given more, and he will have more than enough. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30 And throw that worthless slave into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’�

[myth-one.com]

Question for you:

According to the scriptures, who will succeed in teaching the gospel good news to all the nations?

Your focus on "success" (and by implication "failure") and WHO will finally be given this "ticket" is IMO fleshly thinking: I know of no scripture that uses the word "success" in this regard so it is no concern to me above and beyond that I know whatever God's purpose is will have certain success. Your focus who gets credit for what is wordly thinking.

ALL God's servants (human or angelic) are simply instruments of the Almighty. Everyone has their role: Christians are commanded to DO something, we were not commanded to stop doing it and were told to do that thing "worldwide". Those of us that truly love Jesus OBEY him and simply do what he asked us to do We leave the issue of success or failure in the hands of the Almighty.

Is that's okay with you?

Do as you wish.

But the scriptures state emphatically that the church will fail in it's mission to preach the gospel to all nations:

We are commanded to: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

This has to be accomplished before the end comes: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

But this will finally be accomplished by an angel: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Conclusion: The church will fail in it's mission of spreading the gospel to all the world.

Note that the angel actually has the everlasting gospel.

Does the church?

Meanwhile, I'll keep believing the scriptures.

[JehovahsWitness]

But the scriptures state emphatically that the church will fail in it's mission to preach the gospel to all nations:

We are commanded to: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

This has to be accomplished before the end comes: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

But this will finally be accomplished by an angel: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Conclusion: The church will fail in it's mission of spreading the gospel to all the world.

I have no issue with any of those scriptures. Are you attempting to use them to justify ignoring Jesus' command? I ask because I cannot see anything in any of them that justifies NOT doing as the Lord instructed us to do and I certainly do not see anything that implies that those found preaching the gospel worldwide are doing so in violation of the bible as you implied above.

As for the issue of "failure" I have no comment one way or the other, if you find a scripture one with the word "fail" in it I promise I'll take a look.

Meanwhile, I'll keep believing the scriptures.

Doesn't Satan believes in scripture? At least he can quoted scripture. I'm not implying in any way you are like him, but this fact should be a warning to all that favor belief without action. Jesus said to his disciples to GO and preach the gospel worldwide. You believe in scripture, very good, congratulations but JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES both believe and OBEY scripture!





JW


Further Reading: How Is Our Kingdom-Preaching Work Organized?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... hing-work/

[myth-one.com]

But the scriptures state emphatically that the church will fail in it's mission to preach the gospel to all nations:

We are commanded to: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

This has to be accomplished before the end comes: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

But this will finally be accomplished by an angel: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Conclusion: The church will fail in it's mission of spreading the gospel to all the world.

I have no issue with any of those scriptures. Are you attempting to use them to justify ignoring Jesus' command? I ask because I cannot see anything in any of them that justifies NOT doing as the Lord instructed us to do and I certainly do not see anything that implies that those found preaching the gospel worldwide are doing so in violation of the bible as you implied above.

As for the issue of "failure" I have no comment one way or the other, if you find a scripture one with the word "fail" in it I promise I'll take a look.

Meanwhile, I'll keep believing the scriptures.

Doesn't Satan believes in scripture? At least he can quoted scripture. I'm not implying in any way you are like him, but this fact should be a warning to all that favor belief without action. Jesus said to his disciples to GO and preach the gospel worldwide. You believe in scripture, very good, congratulations but JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are OBEYING scripture!
JW

My only conclusion was: The church will fail in it's mission of spreading the gospel to all the world.

The JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are attempting to spread the gospel as they interpret them to all the world.

The Catholics are attempting to spread the gospel as they interpret them to all the world.

The Southern Baptists are attempting to spread the gospel as they interpret them to all the world.

The Methodists are attempting to spread the gospel as they interpret them to all the world.

Etc, etc, etc.

None will succeed according to the very scriptures they claim to understand and preach to the world:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

This heavenly angel will fulfill the great commission of spreading the gospel to all nations.

Something man could not do.

=====================================================================

The root cause of mankind's failure to preach the gospel to all the world is five words spoken by Satan:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Satan immediately sets man off on the totally wrong path when he instills in mankind the lie of man's immortality!

Any man who believes he is immortal cannot possibly understand the scriptures, which repeatedly state that mankind will perish!

This initial false belief that man is born as an immortal soul living within a physical body seals the remainder of the Bible from man's understanding. The remainder of the Bible must then be incorrectly "interpreted" to support this original error!