The Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

How can Jehovah's Witnesses be the "one true church" if they themselves make mistakes and revise their doctrine, dogma and practices?

Exhibit a) before the NWT (New World Translation) of the Bible was published, Jehovah's Witnesses used the American Standard Version (ASV). Both translations honor the name of Jehovah but there are stark differences.

The NWT is the only translation (that I know of) which has Jesus "impaled on a stake" instead of crucified on a cross, as virtually every other translation posits.

The first volume of the NWT was originally released in 1950.

How can JWs be the "only true church" if it was evolving, fallible and subject to revision?

And exhibit b) how can JWs be the only true church with dimly supported and strange doctrines such as the belief that Jesus was Michael the Archangel before the Nativity?

Exhibit c) How can the JWs be the only true church if they falsely predicted that Jesus would return in 1914?

And when that return did not materialized, they revised their prediction and now conveniently claim his return was "invisible".

"One true Church" or fringe sect?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 80 by onewithhim] But they had been appointed the first members of the governing body and therefore everybody had to believe them or be disfellowshipped. That might be construed as scoffing but isn't that your understanding ?

[American Deist]

Isn't it odd.....Jesus' disciples had NO formal higher learning and yet they had the credentials to teach the Good News of God's Kingdom to the world.

Are these the same disciples that believed in demonic possession instead of medical conditions such as epilepsy?

[JehovahsWitness]

Isn't it odd.....Jesus' disciples had NO formal higher learning and yet they had the credentials to teach the Good News of God's Kingdom to the world.

Are these the same disciples that believed in demonic possession instead of medical conditions such as epilepsy?

No they were the ones that were qualified in Gods eyes to teach the kingdom. Jesus himself believed in demons, as do many Christians and non-Christians today.

Naturally an atheists by definition cannot accept the existence and demons.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 77 by onewithhim] That's probably true. Unfortunately for us, getting a straight answer from a JW can be frustrating and time consuming.

LOL No you want an answer you like. I have seen all JWs on this board give you very straight answers but you don't like them because they don't match up with your prejudiced ideas of JWs. I have even seen non-JWs take note of your misrepresentation of JWs. It's like you get a straight answer and then the next day you don't remember the answer you got and you start the same questioning all over again. It's like watching Fifty First Dates. Where the person wakes up and their brain resets to date years ago.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 68 by 2timothy316]

In this case the physical occurrences that are visible would cause the one looking to see or realize that Christ is invisibly present."See also Mt 24; Mr 13; Re 14:14.

Sorry pilgrim, but I prefer to accept and apply these verses.

Matthew 24:

23 Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There he is! do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 So, if they say to you, Look, he is in the wilderness, do not go out. If they say, Look, he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Then how to you reconcile John 14:19? "In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live."

Both scriptures are true are they not? Or was Jesus lying when he said 'but you will see me'? If he is not then how is it that the world can't see him but when speaking to his disciples he said that they will?

Did you note in the scripture in Matthew that it names physical places like, 'he is in the wilderness' and 'inner rooms'.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 84 by 2timothy316]

The Watchtower no longer teaches an invisible return of Christ. Why are you still debating old light?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 84 by 2timothy316]

The Watchtower no longer teaches an invisible return of Christ. Why are you still debating old light?

Let me clear this up for you real quick.

Jesus began his rule in 1914. He chose who he would claim as his people in 1919. He as been gathering millions of people to those chosen people since 1919. He will return at Armageddon. He has not yet taken the judgement seat yet. When he does, that will be the beginning of the 'return of God's kingdom to Earth'. At no point in any of this is Jesus as person visible. When Jesus said the world will never see him again, he was being literal about being seen in a physical form. He is a spirit now and forever.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 68 by 2timothy316]

In this case the physical occurrences that are visible would cause the one looking to see or realize that Christ is invisibly present."See also Mt 24; Mr 13; Re 14:14.

Sorry pilgrim, but I prefer to accept and apply these verses.

Matthew 24:

23 Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There he is! do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 So, if they say to you, Look, he is in the wilderness, do not go out. If they say, Look, he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Then how to you reconcile John 14:19? "In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live."

Both scriptures are true are they not? Or was Jesus lying when he said 'but you will see me'? If he is not then how is it that the world can't see him but when speaking to his disciples he said that they will?

Did you note in the scripture in Matthew that it names physical places like, 'he is in the wilderness' and 'inner rooms'.

John 14 is not about the second coming.

Indeed that seems to be absent from his whole Gospel, as it is not why he wrote what he did. John 20:30-31.

[

]
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(19) Yet a little while."Comp. John 13:33; John 16:16.

But ye see me"i.e., in the spiritual presence of the Paraclete. The words may indeed have their first fulfilment in the appearances of the forty days (comp. Acts 10:41), but these appearances were themselves steps in the education which was leading the disciples from a trust in the physical to a trust in the spiritual presence. (Comp. John 20:17.) To the world the grave seemed the closing scene. They saw Him no more; they thought of Him as dead. To the believers who had the power to see Him He appeared as living, and in very deed was more truly with them and in them than He had been before.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 68 by 2timothy316]

In this case the physical occurrences that are visible would cause the one looking to see or realize that Christ is invisibly present."See also Mt 24; Mr 13; Re 14:14.

Sorry pilgrim, but I prefer to accept and apply these verses.

Matthew 24:

23 Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There he is! do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 So, if they say to you, Look, he is in the wilderness, do not go out. If they say, Look, he is in the inner rooms, do not believe it.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Then how to you reconcile John 14:19? "In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live."

Both scriptures are true are they not? Or was Jesus lying when he said 'but you will see me'? If he is not then how is it that the world can't see him but when speaking to his disciples he said that they will?

Did you note in the scripture in Matthew that it names physical places like, 'he is in the wilderness' and 'inner rooms'.

John 14 is not about the second coming.

It's about his leaving and what to expect and not to expect 'in a little while'. And what they should expect is the 'world to see him no more'. After his assent we shouldn't be looking into the sky to see him return. The 'little while' is long gone. I do agree with the commentary that we should be looking for Jesus in spiritual sense and not a physical sense.

[American Deist]

No they were the ones that were qualified in Gods eyes to teach the kingdom. Jesus himself believed in demons, as do many Christians and non-Christians today.

Naturally an atheists by definition cannot accept the existence and demons.

They were not demons. What is described in the Bible are medical conditions such as epilepsy, blindness, deafness, leprosy, etc. The people back then did not have the medical knowledge that we have today, and had no way of knowing what was going on. They did not have microscopes, X-rays, MRIs, EKGs, Echoes, etc.

Jesus never wrote anything in the Bible, and the Gospel authors were all anonymous, 3rd party, non eyewitnesses, so you can't say that Jesus believed in demons. You'd think that "God in the flesh" would know that epilepsy was a neurological disorder, not a demonic possession.

Heck, even the Vatican in recent years released a statement saying that most demonic possessions that have been investigated, turned out to be a medical condition. Several possession cases that made the news in the 20th century have been retracted in light of this. The only reason some people still believe in demons is because the Bible talks about them, and they can't fathom the Bible having any errors in it. They back themselves into a corner with biblical inerrancy.