How is one saved?

[AdHoc]

Some people say you need to pray the sinner's prayer, some say believe in Jesus... is there a clear instruction from the Bible how to be saved?

[ThePainefulTruth]

Some people say you need to pray the sinner's prayer, some say believe in Jesus... is there a clear instruction from the Bible how to be saved?

Both Jesus and John the Baptizer preached salvation through repentance. Paul was the one who came up with salvation through blind faith.

Repentance is the act of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.

It's more than that, it's also avoiding a repetition of an act and making restitution where possible.

Repentance is not synonymous with salvation.

True, repentance is how we achieve salvation. No one, not even God can die as a substitute for our repentance--which is a Pauline/Mithraic concept.

Jesus tells us what we must do to be saved:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

An ascetic Jew like Jesus would never have advocated such a concept, and more that he would have established a pagan symbolically cannibalistic rite; but it fits perfectly with the Herodian, Mithraic, Roman Citizen, Paul. Jesus and John the Baptist were a team working up and down the Jordan Valley preaching salvation through repentance--not blind faith in a salvific sacrifice which requires no repentance.

[myth-one.com]

Repentance is not synonymous with salvation.

True, repentance is how we achieve salvation.

No, being born again of the Spirit is how we achieve salvation -- according to Jesus:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

An ascetic Jew like Jesus would never have advocated such a concept, . . .

So Jesus got it all wrong?

Or was this a misquote by John?

Or did God get it wrong?

[ThePainefulTruth]

Repentance is not synonymous with salvation.

True, repentance is how we achieve salvation.

No, being born again of the Spirit is how we achieve salvation -- according to Jesus:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

An ascetic Jew like Jesus would never have advocated such a concept, . . .

So Jesus got it all wrong?

Or did God get it wrong?

Or was this a misquote by John?

Jesus was a practicing Jew.
God doesn't interact in the universe (free will).
So, Bingo! John was written 50 years after Paul and 20 years after the fall of Jerusalem which wiped out or otherwise negated the Jewish Jerusalem Church, leaving Paul's followers to set the agenda--which was tied up in a bow 250 years later when Constantine made "Christianity" (read Paulism) a/the Roman religion, suppressing other sects.

[myth-one.com]

Repentance is not synonymous with salvation.

True, repentance is how we achieve salvation.

No, being born again of the Spirit is how we achieve salvation -- according to Jesus:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

An ascetic Jew like Jesus would never have advocated such a concept, . . .

So Jesus got it all wrong?

Or did God get it wrong?

Or was this a misquote by John?

Jesus was a practicing Jew.

Jesus was a practicing Jew who made the following statement:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

God doesn't interact in the universe (free will).

Of course He does!

He created mankind, expelled them from the Garden of Eden, and do you remember a big flood?

God chose a subset of mankind to be His "chosen" people:

The Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. (Deuteronomy 7:6)

These are only a few of His interactions!

So, Bingo! John was written 50 years after Paul and 20 years after the fall of Jerusalem which wiped out or otherwise negated the Jewish Jerusalem Church, leaving Paul's followers to set the agenda--which was tied up in a bow 250 years later when Constantine made "Christianity" (read Paulism) a/the Roman religion, suppressing other sects.

To my knowledge, the Jewish Church rejected Jesus as the Messiah -- and the Jews and Christians went separate ways.

[ThePainefulTruth]

[Replying to post 888 by myth-one.com]

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

I can only repeat what I've just said.

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 1 by AdHoc]

Remember, because we are sinful from birth (Psalm 51:5), the only thing we can do is have a willing mind (2 Cor 8:12) to do the Father's will (Matt 12:50). Understand that no matter what you do, you are worthy of death. This is because the Creator created you, and no matter what you want to think, you are held to His standards. You can never meet them, so just do His will (the Law of Moses, to your best ability) and He will sort. Only He has the power to forgive your trespasses of the law.

Only those that realize that they are not worthy (truly believe they are not, just as Moses - Exodus 32:32) will He forgive.

[ThePainefulTruth]

[Replying to post 890 by TheGreatDebate]

We aren't inherently evil, but rather born innocent. Thinking we are born evil is just a ruse to justify saying we need to be saved from ourselves, instead of repenting and correcting the wrongs we've knowingly committed.

[myth-one.com]

Thinking we are born evil is just a ruse to justify saying we need to be saved from ourselves, instead of repenting and correcting the wrongs we've knowingly committed.

Let's say that Larry knowingly murders Sally. (fictitious names)

Larry feels guilt and repents of the wrong he has committed.

But how does Larry "correct" and make restitution for his crime against Sally?

Can Larry restore Sally's life?

If not, then repenting and correcting is insufficient to "save" Larry from this wrongful deed.

[ThePainefulTruth]

Thinking we are born evil is just a ruse to justify saying we need to be saved from ourselves, instead of repenting and correcting the wrongs we've knowingly committed.

Let's say that Larry knowingly murders Sally. (fictitious names)

Larry feels guilt and repents of the wrong he has committed.

But how does Larry "correct" and make restitution for his crime against Sally?

Can Larry restore Sally's life?

If not, then repenting and correcting is insufficient to "save" Larry from this wrongful deed.

Repentance and restitution are two different things. Repentance means that you're committed to never do a wrong again.

Restitution isn't always possible, but in most cases, you could/should submit yourself to the legal system of the society where you committed the crime by confessing and pleading "guilty". If the punishment is execution, so be it. Unlike the moral code itself, btw, punishment is subjective. There needs to be punishment enough to disincentivize the crime and match its severity, but the standard punishments are determined by society, and they can be abated by the little known principle lawyers and judges don't want us to know about, jury nullification. That's likely one of the reasons they stopped having jury trials in the Supreme Court.

[myth-one.com]

Repentance and restitution are two different things. Repentance means that you're committed to never do a wrong again.

Addicts repent, repent, repent, repent, repent ... of the same wrong over and over, and over.

Their repentence oftentimes make their guilt and shame even greater the next time they commit the same act of which they have repeatedly "repented."

Perhaps "never" is not a good word to use.

Restitution isn't always possible, but in most cases, you could/should submit yourself to the legal system of the society where you committed the crime by confessing and pleading "guilty". If the punishment is execution, so be it. Unlike the moral code itself, btw, punishment is subjective.

Until mankind develops a method to selectively delete portions of human memory, post tramatic stress can affect victims their entire life. Thus, they will never find restitution to their previous state.

There needs to be punishment enough to disincentivize the crime and match its severity, but the standard punishments are determined by society, and they can be abated by the little known principle lawyers and judges don't want us to know about, jury nullification. That's likely one of the reasons they stopped having jury trials in the Supreme Court.

How about an eye for an eye?

But sometimes innocents are found guilty.

Ah, let's modify eye for an eye so that three wittnesses are required to be convicted.

So the next time someone robs a bank and murders a guard which pulled his gun, the robber must proceed to murder all but two people in the bank to avoid the death penalty if caught.
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But the above is all smoke and mirrors anyway.

Repenting and restitution are not bad things -- but they do not save anyone.

Jesus tells us what we must do to be saved:

. . . Ye must be born again. (John 3:5-7)

It's that simple!