What is God responsible for?

[Willum]

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:

Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.

The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 89 by marco]

"Er, well, hmm. I think he is just a teensy bit responsible. True, silly people built their houses near the sea; others beside a volcano; still others lived in a desert or in parts plagued with drought. But some wise people who built in the right places have been surprised by the earth opening up and swallowing them. And some nice people, visiting friends, have been caught up in tsunamis. Then again awful winds have blown others off the planet. Who caused these things? I don't think it was Joseph Stalin. "

Thank goodnes one Russian off the hook

The supreme energy source we call God permiates the whole universe.
Even though parts of it have strayed from its proper path, the whole creation yearns for the union of perfection and rebalances itself in the process. We see earthquakes etc. but do not know what this perfecton is or why and how does the nature rebalances itself. It seems to have its own intelligence.
(Something like my apple tree).

We just had a big storm with a lot of thunder and lightening. Amazing how all the plants look so much greener the next day!

[marco]

The supreme energy source we call God permeates the whole universe.

I don't doubt it but permeation to that degree carries responsibilities. He mustn't permeate my living room and cause it to topple.

We see earthquakes etc. but do not know what this perfecton is or why and how does the nature rebalances itself.

Well, thankfully I haven't but those that have wouldn't see them as instances of perfection. Geologists might believe they are examples of shoddy workmanship.

We just had a big storm with a lot of thunder and lightening. Amazing how all the plants look so much greener the next day!

This is a wonderfully optimistic way of looking at things. I suppose corpses generate goodness in the soil from which might spring plants, such as your apple trees. God taking a back-seat does have its benefits I suppose. Much better than wiping out London and Paris, or flooding Asia and Africa.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 92 by marco]

The fact that God is omnipresent does not mean God takes a back seat, however. At least, not in the way I picture it. God is present as the initial aim for all occasions, an aim to maximize such beauty as is possible under the circumstances. God as omnipresent is God as present as the principle of unrest, pushing for a higher form of beauty.

It is optimistic because God is with us, not aloof from us. However, it also embraces the tragic because it means God shares in our sorrows and pains as well as our joys. God is no fair-weather friend. God is sensitive, vulnerable to the contingencies of nature and history.

[Willum]

[Replying to hoghead1]

Yes, God keeps us on a cycle of sorrow-born sin, so that he may feast on it while encouraging us to sin more. It is a psychological phenomenon called "positive and negative re-enforcement."

http://help.bcotb.com/blog/the-differen ... unishment/

Which is identical to the sin cycle: You sin, you feel bad bout it. You get redemption and feel good about it.
The net effect in your mind is that you are punished and then rewarded for sin. When you ask Jesus to forgive those sins, he is really just devouring that bit of your soul that you have willing given to him, because it is foul.
Then you do it again.

For Biblical support, see John 1:9, though my interpretation is of course, unflattering, it is of course accurate.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 94 by Willum]

Well, some go that way. But I view God as essentially loving; and when you love others, you do not seek to punish them. I don't hold with a juridical, punitive God.

[Willum]

[Replying to hoghead1]

That is an interesting position. And though my request seems to fall on deaf ears, could you please sight scripture where Gods actions have been loving?

Saying it is one thing, of course, everybody says they are the best, but could you please site scripture that has acts demonstrating this position?

I can see history demonstrating the contrary: Endorsement of Cortes and such, the flood rather pointlessly committing multiple genocides, but I am unaware of any good acts Yahweh performed on this Earth.

Do you know any, and could you cite them? and I don't mean stuff anyone could do, I mean really good stuff, like removing smallpox from the world, or creating public sanitation, or some other great miracle.

Thanks!

[hoghead1]

[Replying to Willum]

Well, read Matthew 5, especially vs. 38 on. Also Like 6:35-36.

[marco]

[Replying to post 92 by marco]

The fact that God is omnipresent does not mean God takes a back seat, however. At least, not in the way I picture it. God is present as the initial aim for all occasions, an aim to maximize such beauty as is possible under the circumstances. God as omnipresent is God as present as the principle of unrest, pushing for a higher form of beauty.

It is optimistic because God is with us, not aloof from us. However, it also embraces the tragic because it means God shares in our sorrows and pains as well as our joys. God is no fair-weather friend. God is sensitive, vulnerable to the contingencies of nature and history.

That is a fine commendation of the Almighty, hoghead. The process of maximising surely does not begin and end with beauty, which after all is a concept in the minds of humans. Evil, too, can be maximised, as can joy and pain. My comment on optimism was with regard to taking specific areas of human observation and attributing them to the offices of God while sighing over other things that make us miserable. The problem of evil plagues the old God as well as his redeemed self. If he simply experiences the sadness and hurt of sin, then how can such a passive being be given credit for incidental bounties? He is surely consistently passive.

[Willum]

[Replying to hoghead1]

So I read.
And God doesn't actually DO anything in those verses, just makes promises we haven't seen come to fruition, like any terrestrial politician.

I mean, allegedly, he cured some folks, and had a manna, but any good doctor could do that, and create permanent repeatable cures when they do... a manna could just be a coincidence.

So... is God responsible for anything other than destroying towns in frustrated irresponsible pique? Destroying entire planets with floods?

Is irresponsible destruction the only thing he is responsible for, terrestrially?

Really, throw me a bone here.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 98 by marco]

Well, no, see, God isn't just purely passive, God is also active. The problem with classical or traditional theism is that it overlooked the passive, empathic, receptive dimensions of God. So I view God as both active and passive. As I mentioned in another post, I view God as Cosmic Artist, whose chief concern is to maximize beauty, great depth and breadth of experience.

The evil of evils, as I mentioned in a number of previous posts, is that the past fades. We acquire a value, only to lose it. What's the point of doing anything if it is all going to go up in smoke soon enough? God is the Savior, because God can deliver us from meaninglessness. The passive, empathic, receptive dimensions of God means that all we experience, is carefully preserved and enjoyed in God's memory forever. Hence, everything has meaning, eternal significance.