The Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

How can Jehovah's Witnesses be the "one true church" if they themselves make mistakes and revise their doctrine, dogma and practices?

Exhibit a) before the NWT (New World Translation) of the Bible was published, Jehovah's Witnesses used the American Standard Version (ASV). Both translations honor the name of Jehovah but there are stark differences.

The NWT is the only translation (that I know of) which has Jesus "impaled on a stake" instead of crucified on a cross, as virtually every other translation posits.

The first volume of the NWT was originally released in 1950.

How can JWs be the "only true church" if it was evolving, fallible and subject to revision?

And exhibit b) how can JWs be the only true church with dimly supported and strange doctrines such as the belief that Jesus was Michael the Archangel before the Nativity?

Exhibit c) How can the JWs be the only true church if they falsely predicted that Jesus would return in 1914?

And when that return did not materialized, they revised their prediction and now conveniently claim his return was "invisible".

"One true Church" or fringe sect?

[2timothy316]

No they were the ones that were qualified in Gods eyes to teach the kingdom. Jesus himself believed in demons, as do many Christians and non-Christians today.

Naturally an atheists by definition cannot accept the existence and demons.

They were not demons. What is described in the Bible are medical conditions such as epilepsy, blindness, deafness, leprosy, etc. The people back then did not have the medical knowledge that we have today, and had no way of knowing what was going on. They did not have microscopes, X-rays, MRIs, EKGs, Echoes, etc.

Riddle me this, what 'disease' causes the following?

"For Jesus had been ordering the unclean spirit to come out of the man. It had seized him on many occasions, and he was repeatedly bound with chains and fetters and kept under guard, but he would break the bonds and be driven by the demon into the isolated places." Luke 8:29

What disease allows for the breaking of chains?

[William]

No they were the ones that were qualified in Gods eyes to teach the kingdom. Jesus himself believed in demons, as do many Christians and non-Christians today.

Naturally an atheists by definition cannot accept the existence and demons.

They were not demons. What is described in the Bible are medical conditions such as epilepsy, blindness, deafness, leprosy, etc. The people back then did not have the medical knowledge that we have today, and had no way of knowing what was going on. They did not have microscopes, X-rays, MRIs, EKGs, Echoes, etc.

Riddle me this, what 'disease' causes the following?

"For Jesus had been ordering the unclean spirit to come out of the man. It had seized him on many occasions, and he was repeatedly bound with chains and fetters and kept under guard, but he would break the bonds and be driven by the demon into the isolated places." Luke 8:29

What disease allows for the breaking of chains?

What metal(s) would the chains likely have consisted of?

[2timothy316]

No they were the ones that were qualified in Gods eyes to teach the kingdom. Jesus himself believed in demons, as do many Christians and non-Christians today.

Naturally an atheists by definition cannot accept the existence and demons.

They were not demons. What is described in the Bible are medical conditions such as epilepsy, blindness, deafness, leprosy, etc. The people back then did not have the medical knowledge that we have today, and had no way of knowing what was going on. They did not have microscopes, X-rays, MRIs, EKGs, Echoes, etc.

Riddle me this, what 'disease' causes the following?

"For Jesus had been ordering the unclean spirit to come out of the man. It had seized him on many occasions, and he was repeatedly bound with chains and fetters and kept under guard, but he would break the bonds and be driven by the demon into the isolated places." Luke 8:29

What disease allows for the breaking of chains?

What metal(s) would the chains likely have consisted of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy

More than likely iron or maybe bronze.

[American Deist]

What disease allows for the breaking of chains?

Excited delirium. It has the same affect as someone strung out on PCP. They gain superhuman strength. People have broken handcuffs that are made of stainless steel.

[William]

No they were the ones that were qualified in Gods eyes to teach the kingdom. Jesus himself believed in demons, as do many Christians and non-Christians today.

Naturally an atheists by definition cannot accept the existence and demons.

They were not demons. What is described in the Bible are medical conditions such as epilepsy, blindness, deafness, leprosy, etc. The people back then did not have the medical knowledge that we have today, and had no way of knowing what was going on. They did not have microscopes, X-rays, MRIs, EKGs, Echoes, etc.

Riddle me this, what 'disease' causes the following?

"For Jesus had been ordering the unclean spirit to come out of the man. It had seized him on many occasions, and he was repeatedly bound with chains and fetters and kept under guard, but he would break the bonds and be driven by the demon into the isolated places." Luke 8:29

What disease allows for the breaking of chains?

What metal(s) would the chains likely have consisted of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy

More than likely iron or maybe bronze.

I am connecting the dots here ... there are recorded events in which people have done seemingly superhuman acts (normally involving strength) - and as such, while not noted as a symptom of having some 'disease' it appears to be humanly possible but not overly common.

Even in more recent times, those deemed to be sufferers of some mental disease have had to be restrained and the restraints normally held, because of the advances in ways in which to make materials designed for that purpose.
Also 'drugs' and also 'treatments' such as Electroconvulsive "therapy".



Welding wasn't even a thing back in Jesus' day, and steel wasn't around so given that the individual was constrained by some form of chain, it wouldn't be chain like we understand chain to be nowadays, and we are not informed if the chain had been recently purchased at the hardware section of the local bazaar or had been in use for a long time and suffered the usual weathering for that.

So I would say that it is feasible under the right circumstances for someone to be able to break chains without invoking 'demons did it'.

[2timothy316]

What disease allows for the breaking of chains?

Excited delirium. It has the same affect as someone strung out on PCP. They gain superhuman strength. People have broken handcuffs that are made of stainless steel.

"PCP is a synthetic substance, meaning that it is made in a laboratory. The ingredients used in its manufacture are completely artificial and not found in nature. The only way to create it is to use industrial chemicals. Many authorities on drug use consider PCP among the most dangerous substances of abuse. What is sold on the street as pure PCP is usually quite impure."

http://www.encyclopedia.com/medicine/en ... ncyclidine

Well we know it wasn't PCP that did it. As you said they didn't have the chemical knowledge.

Excited delirium has never been proven: "Hysterical strength, or superhuman strength, is a display of extreme strength by humans, beyond what is believed to be normal, usually occurring when people are in life and death situations. Common anecdotal examples include parents lifting vehicles to rescue their children. Such examples, however, have not been proven and have been dismissed by doctors across the world. The extra strength is believed[by whom?] to come from adrenaline, though incidents are rare and never proven as there were no examinable evidence or witnesses; research into the phenomenon is difficult, though it is thought that it is theoretically possible."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_strength

So, there's the next mountain to climb. Perhaps reading too many comic books?

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

So PCP use is impossible, Hysterical strength is not really proven. What's next that can give power to man to break iron shackles and fetters.

[American Deist]

[Replying to post 96 by 2timothy316]

I'm a cop. I've had a set of handcuffs broken by someone that was not on PCP. While I understand you wanting to defend the Bible as inerrant or infallible, the fact remains that primitive people did not understand medical science on our level. We do. We are an advanced civilization. Let's act like it.

As far as proof goes, the Bible does not serve as proof of anything. It was written by humans thousands of years ago, in a specific geographic location, within a specific culture. You can't look at the Bible through a modern lens.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 96 by 2timothy316]

I'm a cop. I've had a set of handcuffs broken by someone that was not on PCP. While I understand you wanting to defend the Bible as inerrant or infallible, the fact remain that primitive people did not understand medical science on our level. We do. Let's act like it.

As far as proof goes, the Bible is not proven either.

The Bible is accepted as authoritative in this forum. So if you want to discuss that, there are other forums you can discuss that in.

Your unit might want to invest in better cuffs BTW. I mean, I know there are cutbacks and all but reliable handcuffs is a must I would think.

Have you ever seen iron shackles? Cuffs today are tiny compared to the huge thick shackles and fetters of Rome.

Show me video of a person breaking something like the photo below with a 3rd party to verify it's not a video trick.

[American Deist]

[Replying to post 98 by 2timothy316]

Which translation of the Bible is considered authoritative?

Steel is stronger than iron.

My unit is fine, thanks.

Show me a video proving that the Bible is inerrant. Oh wait...

[American Deist]

Excited delirium has never been proven...

Yet, you have never heard of it, or at least did not know what to call it until you Googled it and read some biased Wiki entry.

So, there's the next mountain to climb. Perhaps reading too many comic books?

I don't read comic books. I do have plenty of real life experiences though. That comes with the territory of being a LEO.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

There's also Occam's Razor. When faced with two theories, the simplest one is usually the correct one. A chemical reaction in one's body, such as a neurological induced adrenaline dump, is far more realistic than some supernatural, invisible boogeyman wearing a human meat suit.

So PCP use is impossible, Hysterical strength is not really proven. What's next that can give power to man to break iron shackles and fetters.

Opiates have been used for thousands of years as an analgesic. Addiction to them can cause paranoia, among other things. Chemical imbalance in the brain can throw your endocrine system out of whack.

Welcome to the 21st century!