Jesus' plan of salvation.

[Elijah John]

25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?� 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?� 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.� 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.�

Luke 10.25-28

And this.

Matthew 19.17b

17............... but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.�

Matthew 7.21

"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. ...

And what is the will of our Heavenly Father? Is it not expressed in the "Law and the Prophets"?

And what is the "Law and the Prophets"?

According to Jesus, simply this:

36“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?� 37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.�

Or, to simplify even further:

Matthew 7.12

12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Notice the following.

The Synoptic Jesus does not mention the necessity of being "bloodwashed", or belief in the blood in order to be saved.

Paul does.

The Synpoptic Jesus celebrates the Law as a way to salvation.

Paul, by contrast, considers those who attempt to follow the Law to salvation, accursed.

The Synoptic Jesus does not claim to be the "only way" to God in these passages. The Johannine Jesus does.

For debate...Why don't John and Paul teach the same "plan of salvation" as does the Jesus of the Synoptics?

[myth-one.com]

Definition of Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

I do, however, believe (because the Bible clearly teaches) that man is created with an eternal existence and will not be annihilated; God is not a murderer, as annihilists, though they don't mean to, mistakenly believe.

Can you simply quote one Bible verse that supports an eternal existence for non-believers?

[PinSeeker]

Definition of Death: The act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

Yes, that's the worldly, dictionary definition (not the Biblical one) of death.

It's a little like the worldly definition of 'faith' as opposed to the Biblical one. The world would define it basically as a wish, something you hope is true but that you really have no idea whether it is or not. The Bible defines 'faith' as the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). In the same sort of way, the Biblical definition of 'death' is different from the worldly one.

This has been my point for a long time now. That and that you refuse to see the Biblical definition of death as very different from the worldly one. Thank you for the first grade grammar lesson, but it was needless, as well as pointless.

Can you simply quote one Bible verse that supports an eternal existence for non-believers?

Well, you will just rehash the same wrong arguments you did before, so what would be the point? I've quoted many Bible verses/passages that show us very clearly that death is not a cessation of existence. Matthew 25:41-46 and Luke 16:22-31, to name two. I can do it many times more, but such is -- or should be, anyway -- unnecessary. It's a little like the situation Jesus faced several times; right after performing many of His miracles, so many still said (in effect), "Can you just show us a sign? Just one? Please? Then we will believe." On a much lesser scale of course, the situation here is the same.

Time number 1001: We can agree to disagree and part gracefully.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

[myth-one.com]

Definition of Death: The act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

Can you simply quote one Bible verse that supports an eternal existence for non-believers?

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This simply states that the fire is everlasting.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 93 by myth-one.com]

Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 93 by myth-one.com]

Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

Please accept my apology!

It does describe the punishment as everlasting in verse 46:

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Everlasting refers to the punishment.

And the punishment is death:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So non-believers die, and remain dead for ever and ever.

Now, redefine death to be everlasting life again.

[PinSeeker]

Please accept my apology!

Hey, man, no worries. Apology most heartily accepted.

Now, redefine death to be everlasting life again.

Well, I never did in the first place, nor would I.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

[myth-one.com]

Please accept my apology!

Hey, man, no worries. Apology most heartily accepted.

Now, redefine death to be everlasting life again.

Well, I never did in the first place, nor would I.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

You're right again.

You redefined death to be "eternal existence!"

Sorry -- that's totally different?

[PinSeeker]

You're right again.

Thank you. Glory to God, not me, though.

You redefined death to be "eternal existence!"

I didn't "re-define" anything.

Sorry -- that's totally different?

Nope.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

I do, however, believe (because the Bible clearly teaches) that man is created with an eternal existence and will not be annihilated; God is not a murderer, as annihilists, though they don't mean to, mistakenly believe.

I just told you that the torment the unsaved endure is an anguish of their own making and in and of themselves, anguish at their own foolish decision to reject God.

=========================================

You personally claim that all mankind have a conscious "eternal existence" and that the unsaved endure everlasting torment.

Being conscious, the unsaved have knowledge of something:

Conscious: having knowledge of something.

===============================================

The scriptures state that nonbelievers perish or die:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

And the scriptures state that the dead know not any thing:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

If nonbelievers perish and know nothing, then they have absolute no consciousness.

Thus as written, the scriptures negate your belief in the "conscious eternal existence" of nonbelievers.

=================================================

The only way your beliefs make sense is for you to re-define the words perish, die, and death.

Which is what you do -- defining "biblical death of nonbelievers" as "conscious eternal existence in torment."

Believers are warned against such practices:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[PinSeeker]

You personally claim that all mankind have a conscious "eternal existence" and that the unsaved endure everlasting torment.

Yes, but only because Scripture itself does...

Being conscious, the unsaved have knowledge of something...

You misunderstand Ecclesiastes 9. The whole of Ecclesiastes is about life in this world (before physical death). The unsaved have no knowledge of their need for salvation. This is because they are dead in their sin.

The scriptures state that nonbelievers perish or die...

Yes, it is appointed to all men to die at least once; this is the first death, physical death. The second death is not a wiping from existence but an entering into a state where God's grace and mercy is totally removed and only His righteous judgment and condemnation remain. Though it is not a popular theme in contemporary society, the doctrine of hell is still a vital part of the Bible. At the second death, all who have lived in rebellion to God will enter a spirit state characterized by pains, trouble, and sorrow (Psa. 116:3). They will be immersed in shame and contempt (Dan. 12:2). It will be a realm of anguish, suffering, and torment (Mt. 22:13; 25:46; Mk. 9:48; Lk. 16:24; 2 Thes. 1:9; Rev. 20:10).

The only way your beliefs make sense is for you to re-define the words perish, die, and death.

No, the only way what the Bible says about death will make sense to you is for you to understand what the words 'perish,' 'die,' and 'death' really mean in the Bible. It has nothing to do with me.

I'll keep up with your misrepresentations of what I have said and what the Bible says as long as you want, myth-one. But, as I have said many times now, we should really just agree to disagree and leave it.

Grace and peace to you.