Jesus and his Father, forever apart?

[JehovahsWitness]

"angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven" Matthew 18:10

Since, Jesus will spend eternity on the earth (or travelling back and forth between the spirit and the physical realm), but the bible indicates that angels that will spend eternity in heaven with The father (see Matthew 18:10 above) I have a question:


#1 Do you think Jesus will be jealous of the angels?

#2 Do you think Jesus will miss time he spent constantly at his Fathers right hand side before the earth even existed (John 1:1)?

#3 Could God not have found a way for Jesus to rule the earth while at the same time being with Him (YHWH) in heaven?

#4 Where will God live when he (God) is ruling afer Jesus finally hands back the kingdom to his Father and "all things are subject" to Him [YHWH/Jehovah]?






My question is directed of course at those that believe Jesus and his Father will NOT spend eternity together in heaven in the same way as they were in the beginning.

[liamconnor]

"angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven" Matthew 18:10

Since, Jesus will spend eternity on the earth (or travelling back and forth between the spirit and the physical realm), but the bible indicates that angels that will spend eternity in heaven with The father (see Matthew 18:10 above) I have a question:


#1 Do you think Jesus will be jealous of the angels?

#2 Do you think Jesus will miss time he spent constantly at his Fathers right hand side before the earth even existed (John 1:1)?

#3 Could God not have found a way for Jesus to rule the earth while at the same time being with Him (YHWH) in heaven?

#4 Where will God live when he (God) is ruling afer Jesus finally hands back the kingdom to his Father and "all things are subject" to Him [YHWH/Jehovah]?






My question is directed of course at those that believe Jesus and his Father will NOT spend eternity together in heaven in the same way as they were in the beginning.

Does the question presume that the anthropological descriptions of God in which God is bound by space, time, and matter, are to be taken literally? i.e., is there a 'back and forth' movement between heaven and earth as there is between space and earth? Does the father actually have a face, with eyebrows and lips and eyes?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by liamconnor]

Yes it does.

Heaven is to be understood to be the spiritual realm with God located in a particular location thereof.

Earth is understood to be the physical literal planet, located in a particular spot in the physical universe.


JW

[2timothy316]

Does the question presume that the anthropological descriptions of God in which God is bound by space, time, and matter, are to be taken literally? i.e., is there a 'back and forth' movement between heaven and earth as there is between space and earth? Does the father actually have a face, with eyebrows and lips and eyes?

The 'Heavens' are completely different continuum than the 'time/space' we live in. Think of it this way. A computer is a continuum of hardware and software. Humans make the computer but we do not live in the computer. Our existence is not dependent on the continuum of the computer either. When it comes to the Heaven Continuum we have no idea what that even means because we have never lived in it. The rules are nowhere near the same. God doesn't depend of our space-time continuum to exist. Asking us to fully comprehend God's Heaven is like asking an app on an iPhone to understand space-time. Even if we made an AI as smart as a human it still could only fully understand the continuum it lived in which I guess what we call 'cyberspace'.

Interestingly the Bible even says that in order to be 'heavenly beings' or cross into the Heaven continuum the person must be born again. Meaning they must be born into the continuum of Heaven. Why? "But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom..." 1 Cor 15:50. Just like we cannot inhabit a computer hard drive with a human body nor can a human body live in a spiritual realm. It's completely a different and completely separate continuum.

Jesus had to go through this process of literally being born again to be completely human and be part of our continuum. The same goes for anyone that goes to Heaven. Jesus again had to be 'born again' after his death. Only this time he was born in the Heavenly continuum with not a physical body but a spiritual one. Jesus has the unique honor of crossing two continuums not once but twice.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 4 by 2timothy316]

I agree. I was just wondering for those that believe that Jesus cannot rule from heaven, where God will be when Jesus hand over the kingdom to him (God).

JW

[Left Site]

"angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven" Matthew 18:10

Since, Jesus will spend eternity on the earth (or travelling back and forth between the spirit and the physical realm), but the bible indicates that angels that will spend eternity in heaven with The father (see Matthew 18:10 above) I have a question:


#1 Do you think Jesus will be jealous of the angels?

#2 Do you think Jesus will miss time he spent constantly at his Fathers right hand side before the earth even existed (John 1:1)?

#3 Could God not have found a way for Jesus to rule the earth while at the same time being with Him (YHWH) in heaven?

#4 Where will God live when he (God) is ruling afer Jesus finally hands back the kingdom to his Father and "all things are subject" to Him [YHWH/Jehovah]?






My question is directed of course at those that believe Jesus and his Father will NOT spend eternity together in heaven in the same way as they were in the beginning.

Personally, I doubt very much that a 144,000 go ;literally to live in spirit bodies in heaven with Jesus. It seems so unlikely that God would not continue his original purpose that they would be occupants of this earth. It seems that for him to change so far away from that original purpose even for the sake of a few would be like a victory for Satan. Satan would have proved that he could manipulate God away from his original purpose, even if only for a 144,000.

I believe there may be another way to view what Paul says in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 concerning this.

But as far as being apart from Jesus, that is nonsensical to me being as the earth itself will be a part of God's temple. Heaven is his throne and the earth his footstool.

Thus we are not as far away from the angels as one might imagine. Neither will the 144,000 be separated from Christ if it proves so that they too will dwell upon this earth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 6 by BusB]


I appreciate your point although I don't believe I made any mention whatsoever of the 144,000. I was simply surprised to learn there are those that believe Jesus will spend eternity - after the millenium rule - on earth while Jehovah is in heaven. Effectively spending the rest of eternity apart.

That seems an extraordinary conclusion to come to in my opinion,

JW

The 144,000 will evidently be whereever Jesus is since they are his "bride".

[Left Site]

[Replying to post 6 by BusB]


I appreciate your point although I don't believe I made any mention whatsoever of the 144,000. I was simply surprised to learn there are those that believe Jesus will spend eternity - after the millenium rule - on earth while Jehovah is in heaven. Effectively spending the rest of eternity apart.

That seems an extraordinary conclusion to come to in my opinion,

JW

The 144,000 will evidently be whereever Jesus is since they are his "bride".

The perfect Adam was with Jehovah there in the Garden of Eden. Jehovah is not bound by our physical perimeters. As Paul said: Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

I know that as a JW you believe God has a definite place of dwelling and with that I don't disagree but for that you define it as if it is a physical place rather than the spiritual place that it is. Your spiritual senses have not expanded much beyond seeing only in terms of physical relationships, and I find that very sad.

Compared to other organized groups of men gathered to reverence and pay to God what they see is owing, your organization excels most. But you have further yet to go.

And before you tell me that it sounds like I believe I am above you, know that I will respond that you are welcome to use whatever conversation stopper suites you. We live by spirit, let us walk by spirit. Not the spirit of organizations formed by men, but by the spirit of God.

[JehovahsWitness]

I know that as a JW you believe God has a definite place of dwelling and with that I don't disagree but for that you define it as if it is a physical place rather than the spiritual place that it is.

Are you under the impression that Jehovah' s Witnesses believe heaven to be a physical place?

[Left Site]

I know that as a JW you believe God has a definite place of dwelling and with that I don't disagree but for that you define it as if it is a physical place rather than the spiritual place that it is.

Are you under the impression that Jehovah' s Witnesses believe heaven to be a physical place?

No, I know they don't.

But what I am saying is that it seems as if they, like so many other religious groups, tend to think of the separation in terms of distance in miles, like if we were able to travel far enough through the universe in a spaceship we could find his place of dwelling. But I know in my mind and heart that miles of distance only apply to the physical realm.

Our separation from God is spiritual, not physical. The things pictured in the scriptures are illustrative of spiritual relationships. And that is something vastly different than occupying a specific location.