The fulness of God

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What do the Scriptures mean when they talk about Christ being in "fullness?" And what is better, the whole or the full? Let's begin with an examination of the Greek word for fullness, which pretty much appears to be self-explanatory. As a metaphor, the word fullness in the following verses means, in full measure, abundance, and completeness, such as leaving nothing more to be desired.

John 1:16, "Of His (Christ's) fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 3:19, "To know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

Here’s the question: “Does it prove that Jesus is not fully God, because the verse says that a Christian individual can be filled with the fullness of God?” Does this logic contain a common theological misunderstanding known as a category error or a confusion between participation and essence?

The word for "fullness" in these verses is “plērōma.” It does not mean "a part of something greater." It means the totality, the total, or the complete expression of what something is.

Ephesians 1:23, the Church is called the "fullness" of Christ, meaning it is the vessel that completes His expression on earth, not that the Church is Christ.

In Colossians 1:19 and 2:9, that in Christ, "All the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,” and in Colossians 2:9, "in Him all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?" If mortals can be filled with the fullness of God, Ephesians 3:19, then Christ cannot be unique or fully God, because we share that status is incorrect for two reasons:

Jesus Christ is the Fullness by nature. He possesses the fullness of the Father intrinsically and eternally. He is the source. But believers are filled with the fullness of God derivatively. We receive grace from Him, John 1:16: "Of His fullness have all we received.”

I think of it like this: If a lightbulb is plugged into a power station, it receives electricity. But the bulb does not become the power station. The power station is the source; the bulb is the recipient. The bulb can be "filled" with light, but it does not possess the essence of the power plant.

Similarly, believers are filled with God’s life, love, and Spirit, but we do not become, in essence, God. We are sanctified participants, not divine creators.

Ephesians 3:19 is About Love, not Divinity. "To know the love of Christ... that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God."

This "fullness" refers to being complete in character and spiritual maturity, not becoming divine beings. It means we are filled with God’s attributes, his love, joy, and peace so that we lack nothing spiritually. It is about moral and spiritual completeness, not metaphysical identity.

When Scripture says Christ is in "fullness," it means He lacks nothing divine. He is not a "partial" God or an angel. He is the complete revelation of the Father. He embodies the totality of His Father’s nature. As Colossians 2:9 states, the entirety of God’s divine nature dwells in Him. And lastly, He is the source of our fullness. John 1:16 shows that our "fullness" is derived from His. He gives; we receive.

So, the Bible doesn’t say we become God because we’re filled with His fullness. It says we’re filled with His life, love, and Spirit, but only because Christ, who is God, shares it with us.

[1213]

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So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?"...

That is like asking, is a bottle water, if it is full of water? If Jesus is the God, I don't think the Bible would say he was full of God.

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...
So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?"...

That is like asking, is a bottle water, if it is full of water? If Jesus is the God, I don't think the Bible would say he was full of God.

1213, That's your answer? You won't convince anyone with simple comments like that to prove Jesus is not God. You said, "You don't think," Hmmmm! No one asked you to think; all we have to do is read the article above; it explains itself.

I have asked many Jehovah's Witnesses this same question, but they never respond, most likely because they can't. When they claim that the Father created all things THROUGH his Son, what exactly do they mean "he created all things through his Son?" How do you create anything through someone else? And you can continue to deny John 1:1, Colossians 1:16, John 1:3, Revelation 1:8, Hebrews 1:8, and so many other verses that PROVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD WITH US, Matthew 1:23, and 1 Timothy 3:16, he is "God manifest in the flesh."
Let's show the world what these verses say so there is no doubt in anyone's mind.

Each of the following verses is speaking of Jesus, the Son of God, the Word of God, the Almighty.

John 1:1, "And the Word (Jesus) was God."
Colossians 1:16, "For by him (Jesus) were all things created."
John 1:3, "All things were made by him (Jesus): and without him was not anything made."
Revelation 1:8, Jesus' own words, "I an Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, ---- the Almighty."
Hebrews 1:8, the Father said of his Son, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." Verse 9, "And thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth."

Every one of the above verses has either been changed or words added in the New World Translation of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's 3rd edition to prove Jesus is not God, but "a god." If you buy that, fine, your choice, free country.

[1213]

...
So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?"...

That is like asking, is a bottle water, if it is full of water? If Jesus is the God, I don't think the Bible would say he was full of God.

1213, That's your answer? You won't convince anyone with simple comments like that to prove Jesus is not God.

Are you saying, if a bottle is full of water, the bottle is water?

I have asked many Jehovah's Witnesses this same question, but they never respond, most likely because they can't. When they claim that the Father created all things THROUGH his Son,

It is the Bible that says things were created through Jesus.

All things have been created through him and for him. He is be-fore all things, and in him all things are held together.
Col. 1:14-16

And Jesus says he can do nothing of himself, which I think means, he is the mediator between God and men.

Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does like-wise.
John 5:19
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

John 1:1, "And the Word (Jesus) was God."
Colossians 1:16, "For by him (Jesus) were all things created."
John 1:3, "All things were made by him (Jesus): and without him was not anything made."
Revelation 1:8, Jesus' own words, "I an Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, ---- the Almighty."
Hebrews 1:8, the Father said of his Son, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." Verse 9, "And thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth."

Every one of the above verses has either been changed or words added in the New World Translation of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's 3rd edition to prove Jesus is not God, but "a god." If you buy that, fine, your choice, free country.

John 1:1 doesn't say Jesus is the word.

And Jesus says there is only one true God and that the God is greater than him. Therefore all interpretations that Jesus is the God are not in line with the words of Jesus.

If you think Jesus is the God, why not believe him?

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

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...
So, is the logic that "If I am filled with God’s fullness, am I God?"...

That is like asking, is a bottle water, if it is full of water? If Jesus is the God, I don't think the Bible would say he was full of God.

1213, That's your answer? You won't convince anyone with simple comments like that to prove Jesus is not God.

Are you saying, if a bottle is full of water, the bottle is water?

I have asked many Jehovah's Witnesses this same question, but they never respond, most likely because they can't. When they claim that the Father created all things THROUGH his Son,

It is the Bible that says things were created through Jesus.

All things have been created through him and for him. He is be-fore all things, and in him all things are held together.
Col. 1:14-16

And Jesus says he can do nothing of himself, which I think means, he is the mediator between God and men.

Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does like-wise.
John 5:19
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

John 1:1, "And the Word (Jesus) was God."
Colossians 1:16, "For by him (Jesus) were all things created."
John 1:3, "All things were made by him (Jesus): and without him was not anything made."
Revelation 1:8, Jesus' own words, "I an Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, ---- the Almighty."
Hebrews 1:8, the Father said of his Son, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." Verse 9, "And thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth."

Every one of the above verses has either been changed or words added in the New World Translation of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's 3rd edition to prove Jesus is not God, but "a god." If you buy that, fine, your choice, free country.

John 1:1 doesn't say Jesus is the word.

And Jesus says there is only one true God and that the God is greater than him. Therefore all interpretations that Jesus is the God are not in line with the words of Jesus.

If you think Jesus is the God, why not believe him?

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

Okay, Jesus said the Father is greater than himself; does that make you feel better? But remember, when you see the Lord Jesus, you will have seen the Father. Does seeing him mean he looks like his Father, or he is acting like his Father, is doing the Father's work, or that he is equal to his Father? Or does it mean all of the above?

Philippians 2:6 tells us Jesus is in the form of his Father, and that he did not think himself to be a thief claiming equality with the Father. The Greek word "form" in Philippians 2:6 means, "As God, like God, where the force of the antithesis would seem most naturally to refer to the Divine majesty and glory of the Son of God.

But remember this: when you see this lesser Jesus that you keep talking about, Philippians reminds us of all of what we had better do. Philippians 2:10, "Every knee should bow; those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Bow means to bend a knee in worship and is taken from Isaiah 45. And don't come around with the baloney that bow means respect, because it doesn't when we stand before the Lord Jesus and bow down to him.

Isaiah 45:22-23, The LORD (Jehovah) said, "Look at me, and be you saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Now are you going to say the Father transferred his glory to his Son in the New Testament? No! Jesus is Jehovah, who is speaking in Isaiah 45.

[1213]

Okay, Jesus said the Father is greater than himself; does that make you feel better? But remember, when you see the Lord Jesus, you will have seen the Father. Does seeing him mean he looks like his Father, or he is acting like his Father, is doing the Father's work, or that he is equal to his Father? Or does it mean all of the above?

The Bible says, Jesus is the image of God. Obviously, if you have seen an image of something, you have seen the something.

… He is the image of the invisible God...
Col. 1:14-16

What do you think, is an image of a house equal to the actual house that is in the image?

If Jesus says the God is greater than Him and that he can't do things without the God, then they are not equal.

But remember this: when you see this lesser Jesus that you keep talking about, Philippians reminds us of all of what we had better do. Philippians 2:10, "Every knee should bow; those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Bow means to bend a knee in worship and is taken from Isaiah 45. And don't come around with the baloney that bow means respect, because it doesn't when we stand before the Lord Jesus and bow down to him.

That Jesus is not as great as the God, does not mean he is not great. To me Jesus is the king. And if people bowed to lesser kings than Jesus, I don't see why not to Jesus, who is the king of kings.

...No! Jesus is Jehovah, who is speaking in Isaiah 45.

That would mean Jesus is the one and only true God and that there is no greater than Jesus.

I don't think Jesus is Jehovah, because:

He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, 'The Lord (Jehovah) said to my Lord (Adonai), Sit on my right hand, Until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?' "If then David calls him Lord (Adonai), how is he his son?"
Matt. 22:43-45 (Ps 110:1)

[OneJack]

[Replying to 1213 in post #6]

That would mean Jesus is the one and only true God and that there is no greater than Jesus.

Absolutely, Jesus is the one and only true God and no one is greater than Jesus, since the name of the Almighty God is Jesus (Isaiah 7:13; 9:6; Matt 1:21). He (Jesus) is the Lord God who came in the flesh - the flesh of the man who was called the Son of God during His (Jesus’) incarnation.

I don't think Jesus is Jehovah, because:

He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, 'The Lord (Jehovah) said to my Lord (Adonai), Sit on my right hand, Until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?' "If then David calls him Lord (Adonai), how is he his son?"
Matt. 22:43-45 (Ps 110:1)

Didn’t the apostles call the Son of God, per se, Lord not knowing that the Father Himself was dwelling in him (Son of God) as the Spirit and Life in him (Son) (John 14:10-11)? The Father, through the Son of God, did all His works during His (Father’s) incarnation. The Son of God, per se, is a man, the physical vessel of God in His incarnation, while Jesus, per se, is the name of God.

[placebofactor]

Okay, Jesus said the Father is greater than himself; does that make you feel better? But remember, when you see the Lord Jesus, you will have seen the Father. Does seeing him mean he looks like his Father, or he is acting like his Father, is doing the Father's work, or that he is equal to his Father? Or does it mean all of the above?

The Bible says, Jesus is the image of God. Obviously, if you have seen an image of something, you have seen the something.

… He is the image of the invisible God...
Col. 1:14-16

What do you think, is an image of a house equal to the actual house that is in the image?

If Jesus says the God is greater than Him and that he can't do things without the God, then they are not equal.

But remember this: when you see this lesser Jesus that you keep talking about, Philippians reminds us of all of what we had better do. Philippians 2:10, "Every knee should bow; those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." Bow means to bend a knee in worship and is taken from Isaiah 45. And don't come around with the baloney that bow means respect, because it doesn't when we stand before the Lord Jesus and bow down to him.

That Jesus is not as great as the God, does not mean he is not great. To me Jesus is the king. And if people bowed to lesser kings than Jesus, I don't see why not to Jesus, who is the king of kings.

...No! Jesus is Jehovah, who is speaking in Isaiah 45.

That would mean Jesus is the one and only true God and that there is no greater than Jesus.

I don't think Jesus is Jehovah, because:

He said to them, "How then does David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, 'The Lord (Jehovah) said to my Lord (Adonai), Sit on my right hand, Until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet?' "If then David calls him Lord (Adonai), how is he his son?"
Matt. 22:43-45 (Ps 110:1)

I will only answer the following. You wrote, "The Bible says, Jesus is the image of God. Obviously, if you have seen an image of something, you have seen the something." Then you asked, "Is an image of a house equal to the actual house that is in the image?"

So, what you are saying is the Father, in his physical appearance, looks exactly like Jesus Christ, and that's it. I would call that shallow theology. No sense saying anything further; you have made up your mind and shut the door.

[1213]

...So, what you are saying is the Father, in his physical appearance, looks exactly like Jesus Christ...

According to the Bible, the God is Spirit. So, if Jesus is the image of God, he is an image spiritually, not physically.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

I think that is good to know, when one comes and claims to be the God.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #6]

That would mean Jesus is the one and only true God and that there is no greater than Jesus.

Absolutely, Jesus is the one and only true God and no one is greater than Jesus, since the name of the Almighty God is Jesus (Isaiah 7:13; 9:6; Matt 1:21). ...

If Jesus is the God and who is the one who says: "Sit on my right hand", in Matt. 22:43-45?

Those scriptures don't say God's name is Jesus, they say:

And He said, Hear now, O house of David, is it too little that you weary men, but will you also weary my God?
Isaiah 7:13
For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 7:13
And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Matt 1:21