Should people "shack-up" before marriage?

[Nickman]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

[Nickman]

From the Barna survey

Variation in divorce rates by religion: Religion % have been divorced Jews 30% Born-again Christians 27% Other Christians 24% Atheists, Agnostics 21%


Ron Barrier, Spokesperson for American Atheists
He said: "These findings confirm what I have been saying these last five years. Since Atheist ethics are of a higher caliber than religious morals, it stands to reason that our families would be dedicated more to each other than to some invisible monitor in the sky. With Atheism, women and men are equally responsible for a healthy marriage. There is no room in Atheist ethics for the type of 'submissive' nonsense preached by Baptists and other Christian and/or Jewish groups. Atheists reject, and rightly so, the primitive patriarchal attitudes so prevalent in many religions with respect to marriage."

[NVIIIX1]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

My daughter is 22 years old. She wouldn't do this (shack-up) out respect for herself and for us.

How would cohabitation indicate a lack of respect for herself or you? I can see how it might indicate lack of respect for your values.

Yes, exactly that.

[JoeyKnothead]

I propose an alternative here...

Shack-up instead of getting married.

100% of divorces are the result of being married.

[Nickman]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

My daughter is 22 years old. She wouldn't do this (shack-up) out respect for herself and for us.

How would cohabitation indicate a lack of respect for herself or you? I can see how it might indicate lack of respect for your values.

Yes, exactly that.

Lack of respect for values? How is shacking-up a lack of respect for values?

In order to get a full understanding of whether or not we are compatible with another human being in a union of marriage, we need to "shack-up" and experience that person in that type of setting. Would you jump right into an investment without finding out the details? Would you buy a car without a test drive or a look at the Carfax? No. The same logic can be applied to pre-marriage. I think we would see a decrease in divorce worldwide if we followed this simple logic of getting to know your partner by "shacking-up". The statistics show that the religious who hold the idea of not "shacking-up" divorce more often that atheists who do "shack-up". The whole idea of not shacking-up and no sex before marriage comes from primitive cultures long before us who valued a woman's virginity as an asset they can sell. A father couldn't trade off his daughter if she was not a virgin and therefore he wouldn't receive a payment for her. This is historical fact that daughters were traded to men in marriage for compensation. The bible even endorses this behavior by allowing men to sell their daughters at the age of 12 years and 1 day. If they were not virgins then they were worthless. What we have now is a watered down version of that same mentality. All of this no sex before marriage applied to women only not men. Women were property and had no rights back then.

We now live in a more sophisticated and ideal society and shacking-up shouldn't be shunned by the religious (it is only you guys who oppose it). Instead, people who want to shack-up should be seen as intelligent and rational. Those that don't shack-up should be looked at as irrational and naive, getting themselves into a situation without examining the risks and problems.

Would you think a person is acting irrational and naive if they just listen to a car salesman and buy a car without a test drive or a thorough examination? Why wouldn't you apply this same logic to something even more serious and important than buying a car? Oh yeah, its that whole irrational religion thing, I get it. Just do as your told, don't ask questions.

[NVIIIX1]

I personally think that when two adults shack-up prior to marriage, they have a better chance of staying married and avoid divorce. This I have concluded from my own logic and experience. If we get to know a person prior to marriage on that level we are able to make a better decision about whether or not we can be married to that person. If we don't shack-up we won't be able to see how that person truly is in that setting. Christians tend to be against shacking-up which I feel has led to the statistics showing that they are more susceptible to divorce than atheists who do tend to shack-up.

What do you say? Should we shack up? Is it beneficial? If not why not?

P.S. Just because "god said so" is not a good answer. Please provide why it is harmful or wrong and the potential problem it could cause.

My daughter is 22 years old. She wouldn't do this (shack-up) out respect for herself and for us.

How would cohabitation indicate a lack of respect for herself or you? I can see how it might indicate lack of respect for your values.

Yes, exactly that.

Lack of respect for values? How is shacking-up a lack of respect for values?

In order to get a full understanding of whether or not we are compatible with another human being in a union of marriage, we need to "shack-up" and experience that person in that type of setting. Would you jump right into an investment without finding out the details? Would you buy a car without a test drive or a look at the Carfax? No. The same logic can be applied to pre-marriage. I think we would see a decrease in divorce worldwide if we followed this simple logic of getting to know your partner by "shacking-up". The statistics show that the religious who hold the idea of not "shacking-up" divorce more often that atheists who do "shack-up". The whole idea of not shacking-up and no sex before marriage comes from primitive cultures long before us who valued a woman's virginity as an asset they can sell. A father couldn't trade off his daughter if she was not a virgin and therefore he wouldn't receive a payment for her. This is historical fact that daughters were traded to men in marriage for compensation. The bible even endorses this behavior by allowing men to sell their daughters at the age of 12 years and 1 day. If they were not virgins then they were worthless. What we have now is a watered down version of that same mentality. All of this no sex before marriage applied to women only not men. Women were property and had no rights back then.

We now live in a more sophisticated and ideal society and shacking-up shouldn't be shunned by the religious (it is only you guys who oppose it). Instead, people who want to shack-up should be seen as intelligent and rational. Those that don't shack-up should be looked at as irrational and naive, getting themselves into a situation without examining the risks and problems.

Would you think a person is acting irrational and naive if they just listen to a car salesman and buy a car without a test drive or a thorough examination? Why wouldn't you apply this same logic to something even more serious and important than buying a car? Oh yeah, its that whole irrational religion thing, I get it. Just do as your told, don't ask questions.

The Carfax model ought not work as my goal is for my daughter to grow up and be responsible. Regardless of whom she marries, she can be content and she can do so without any prior sexual experience. My first choice would be to choose a husband for my daughter so as to make the mesh of the two families more intentional. My first daughter married a boy whose parents are left-over pot-heads and we routinely are bombarded with references to the dad's glory days.

Please bear in mind that I cannot abdicate my responsibility to lead my family and could not be expected to do anything less for my daughters.

[Nickman]

The Carfax model ought not work as my goal is for my daughter to grow up and be responsible. Regardless of whom she marries, she can be content and she can do so without any prior sexual experience. My first choice would be to choose a husband for my daughter so as to make the mesh of the two families more intentional. My first daughter married a boy whose parents are left-over pot-heads and we routinely are bombarded with references to the dad's glory days.

Please bear in mind that I cannot abdicate my responsibility to lead my family and could not be expected to do anything less for my daughters.

What is the reason for no sex before marriage and no shacking-up? What does this teach them?

Why would you choose a husband for your daughter? She's the one who has to sleep with him and live with him. Isn't this her responsibility? Can she not be trusted to choose a good mate by shacking-up in order to make a better decision?

How can a person who doesn't shack-up have a proper understanding of who they are marrying? In what way is "not shacking-up" more beneficial? What would be the problems of shacking-up? Or is shacking-up just a belief you hold without any real reason to think it is "wrong" or problematic?

[NVIIIX1]

The Carfax model ought not work as my goal is for my daughter to grow up and be responsible. Regardless of whom she marries, she can be content and she can do so without any prior sexual experience. My first choice would be to choose a husband for my daughter so as to make the mesh of the two families more intentional. My first daughter married a boy whose parents are left-over pot-heads and we routinely are bombarded with references to the dad's glory days.

Please bear in mind that I cannot abdicate my responsibility to lead my family and could not be expected to do anything less for my daughters.

What is the reason for no sex before marriage and no shacking-up? What does this teach them?

Why would you choose a husband for your daughter? She's the one who has to sleep with him and live with him. Isn't this her responsibility? Can she not be trusted to choose a good mate by shacking-up in order to make a better decision?

How can a person who doesn't shack-up have a proper understanding of who they are marrying? In what way is "not shacking-up" more beneficial? What would be the problems of shacking-up? Or is shacking-up just a belief you hold without any real reason to think it is "wrong" or problematic?

I’m quite certain that the similarities between purchasing a car and taking a marriage partner are dissimilar. My wife and I did not live together prior to our marriage and therfor I know that it is not relevant. My daughter may have ideas lurking in the back of her mind as I’ve heard that argument about testing things out before marriage commitment. It is my assumption that she respects my opinion and is in need of my support and as such she has not objected to honoring my wishes. The young man who visits our house is Eric and he has taken a genuine interest in our family. I would like Eric to marry my daughter and I intend to tell him this whenever I meet him next year.

[Nickman]

The Carfax model ought not work as my goal is for my daughter to grow up and be responsible. Regardless of whom she marries, she can be content and she can do so without any prior sexual experience. My first choice would be to choose a husband for my daughter so as to make the mesh of the two families more intentional. My first daughter married a boy whose parents are left-over pot-heads and we routinely are bombarded with references to the dad's glory days.

Please bear in mind that I cannot abdicate my responsibility to lead my family and could not be expected to do anything less for my daughters.

What is the reason for no sex before marriage and no shacking-up? What does this teach them?

Why would you choose a husband for your daughter? She's the one who has to sleep with him and live with him. Isn't this her responsibility? Can she not be trusted to choose a good mate by shacking-up in order to make a better decision?

How can a person who doesn't shack-up have a proper understanding of who they are marrying? In what way is "not shacking-up" more beneficial? What would be the problems of shacking-up? Or is shacking-up just a belief you hold without any real reason to think it is "wrong" or problematic?

I’m quite certain that the similarities between purchasing a car and taking a marriage partner are dissimilar. My wife and I did not live together prior to our marriage and therfor I know that it is not relevant. My daughter may have ideas lurking in the back of her mind as I’ve heard that argument about testing things out before marriage commitment. It is my assumption that she respects my opinion and is in need of my support and as such she has not objected to honoring my wishes. The young man who visits our house is Eric and he has taken a genuine interest in our family. I would like Eric to marry my daughter and I intend to tell him this whenever I meet him next year.

You haven't answered my questions.

How can a person who doesn't shack-up have a proper understanding of who they are marrying? In what way is "not shacking-up" more beneficial? What would be the problems of shacking-up? Or is shacking-up just a belief you hold without any real reason to think it is "wrong" or problematic?

To add, the car model is relevant to the discussion. Just because you were able to find someone you were compatible with doesn't detract from the fact that you went into it without a full knowledge. Just like buying a car, even if you don't look at the carfax doesn't mean the car can't be reliable and last. The reasonable thing to do though is not risk it and get all the information jsut like shacking-up

[NVIIIX1]

The Carfax model ought not work as my goal is for my daughter to grow up and be responsible. Regardless of whom she marries, she can be content and she can do so without any prior sexual experience. My first choice would be to choose a husband for my daughter so as to make the mesh of the two families more intentional. My first daughter married a boy whose parents are left-over pot-heads and we routinely are bombarded with references to the dad's glory days.

Please bear in mind that I cannot abdicate my responsibility to lead my family and could not be expected to do anything less for my daughters.

What is the reason for no sex before marriage and no shacking-up? What does this teach them?

Why would you choose a husband for your daughter? She's the one who has to sleep with him and live with him. Isn't this her responsibility? Can she not be trusted to choose a good mate by shacking-up in order to make a better decision?

How can a person who doesn't shack-up have a proper understanding of who they are marrying? In what way is "not shacking-up" more beneficial? What would be the problems of shacking-up? Or is shacking-up just a belief you hold without any real reason to think it is "wrong" or problematic?

I’m quite certain that the similarities between purchasing a car and taking a marriage partner are dissimilar. My wife and I did not live together prior to our marriage and therfor I know that it is not relevant. My daughter may have ideas lurking in the back of her mind as I’ve heard that argument about testing things out before marriage commitment. It is my assumption that she respects my opinion and is in need of my support and as such she has not objected to honoring my wishes. The young man who visits our house is Eric and he has taken a genuine interest in our family. I would like Eric to marry my daughter and I intend to tell him this whenever I meet him next year.

You haven't answered my questions.

How can a person who doesn't shack-up have a proper understanding of who they are marrying? In what way is "not shacking-up" more beneficial? What would be the problems of shacking-up? Or is shacking-up just a belief you hold without any real reason to think it is "wrong" or problematic?

To add, the car model is relevant to the discussion. Just because you were able to find someone you were compatible with doesn't detract from the fact that you went into it without a full knowledge. Just like buying a car, even if you don't look at the carfax doesn't mean the car can't be reliable and last. The reasonable thing to do though is not risk it and get all the information jsut like shacking-up

I have been married for quite a while and I have yet to have a proper understanding of my wife. She remains a mystery to me and I would like to continue interaction with her that I know her better.

I would rather not my children use the genitals of another for the sake of "compatibility" as it relates to preference or whatever. I have yet to understand how prior knowledge of physical sex and sex performance can proove to make for a better marriage. To that end I could ask "Are you physically able to produce children?" If she states "yes" then I would take her as a wife. As I took a wife, it never occured to me to ask if she were mutilated or deformed in some way and yet now we have children and grandchildren.

[alive]

I propose an alternative here...

Shack-up instead of getting married.

100% of divorces are the result of being married.

At some point for both parties concerned tieing up the contract is just a thing that has to be done...That way both parties no there are lines that are not to be broken..