Will gays EVER be accepted by mainstream Christianity?

[KCKID]

The Mainstream Christian Church (i.e. the 'Christian Church' in general) appears to have an unshakable belief that gay people cannot possibly be Christians. Therefore gay people will always be regarded as 'lepers' because the mainstream Church believes that homosexuality is against the will of God and the actual practicing of such is a 'grave sin'. This is in spite of the fact that nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality referred to as a grave sin. This more comes from the minds of people who have received a life time of brainwashing into believing this. Where homosexual activity IS mentioned in scripture it almost always - in fact, PROBABLY always - refers to the practice of idolatry and not as WE today refer to homosexuality. There are those Christians who are so appalled at the notion that gay people might desire to integrate with 'actual Christians' within their Church community that they suggest gays start their own denomination ...minus the 'Christian' prefix, of course, which would be sacrilege. Such folks want nothing to do with homosexual people and their minds appear to be set on this.

Below is a recent item from The Guardian that tells of the plight of gay Christians in Uganda. In our particular neck of the woods (probably the majority of those of us who participate on the forum) gays have no fear of state imposed death or life imprisonment as do those in places such as Uganda. Gays do, however, have a stigma placed on them by most Christians that results in rejection by the mainstream Church and, indeed, by God himself. And, of course, the rejection of God is tantamount to death or, worse still, eternal torment. The latter makes the penalty imposed on gays in Uganda pale by comparison.

Will mainstream Christianity ever be accepting of people whose only 'sin' is that they happen to be gay ...i.e. an involuntary sexual attraction between two people of the same gender? If not, why not? Please, give your HONEST reasons.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... ry-kampala

Sunday is a special day in Uganda, the conservative east African country that is threatening to put gay people behind bars for life. On Sunday you can see families flocking to churches all over the country for prayer, wearing their best clothes.

The sermons are predictable. Church leaders will pray for divine intervention against the corrupt leaders, poverty and the potholed roads, and then finally call doom upon the country's homosexuals who are sinning against the Christian God and ruining African culture.

But not at a tiny church tucked away in one of Kampala's suburbs. Here, gay people meet in devoted challenge to mainstream denominations that have declared them outcasts. With dread-locked hair and in jeans and bathroom slippers, members of this congregation would stand out in the prim and proper evangelical church I sometimes go to. I feel overdressed in my white dress.

"Here we are all about freedom," Pepe Onziema, a gay rights activist tells me. "It is a universal church. We welcome people whether gay or straight."

The gates may be open but the road to the church that calls itself a friendship and reconciliation centre is not paved with sleek cars or thronged with believers. The worshippers trickle in. They take their seats, but not before surveying the crowd furtively, trying to identify everyone. Their life depends on this vigilance.

In Uganda, police raid homes and arrest those they suspect to be gay. Homosexuality is an offence under the penal code. The president, Yoweri Museveni, refuses to pass a bill that seeks to strengthen the punishments for homosexuality to include life imprisonment, but isn’t under pressure to do so. Conservative Christian churches, under the auspices of the Uganda Joint Christian Council, refuse to accept homosexuals in spite of more gay-friendly approaches from parent churches abroad. The anti-gay furnace is fanned by American evangelical churches that have made it their mission to free Africa of homosexuality, saying it is alien to African culture.

The gay Ugandan church seeks to spread an alternative gospel of love and acceptance for all. On this particular Sunday, it is the memorial of David Kato, a gay rights activist who was murdered in 2011. So the numbers are bigger than usual. When the church was started by Bishop Christopher Senyonjo (who has since been thrown out of the Anglican Church for ministering to gay people), the gay community in Uganda attended devotedly. But with arrests and growing anti-gay sentiments, threats to their lives and arrests, fewer and fewer people come to the church.

"Our numbers have reduced ever since we started in 2008," Denis, the chaplain and a primary school teacher, tells me. "It is worse now that the bill has been passed." If Denis's employees knew of his orientation or his calling, he would certainly lose his job. "This is the only place we can feel at home. Here we can worship God without feeling guilty or fearing persecution."

Joining a gay congregation in Uganda is risky but Onziema says it is necessary in a society that greatly values community. For on Sundays, when many Ugandans spend time with their families, most gay people have nowhere to go. "Coming here lets us know that we are not alone and gives us the strength to continue the struggle," Onziema says.

You can see both hope and fear in the eyes of the congregation as they read Bible verses proclaiming God's protection over them and sing "What a friend we have in Jesus".

Here, there are no thunderous shouts of praise, speaking in tongues or Bible-thumping that is characteristic of the evangelism that is so trendy in the country. In the quiet worship of Uganda's gay community, there is a still hope and the kind of courage you can only muster after you have seen it all and there is nothing left to fear. Sunday is also the day gay people in Uganda cast off their masks to chat about the latest fashion, cars and celebrities.

"You thought we were going to pray that God stops the anti-homosexuality bill," Mugisha, the head of Sexual Minorities Uganda, asks me with laughter and mischief in his voice. "It will not pass. We do not need to pray for that."

Mugisha is for a moment free from his job, his life, fighting for the basic human rights of gay people. "I come here for the community. It is better than staying home alone," he says. As the service ends, members of the congregation are asked to say something in memory of David Kato, whose spirit of resilience they will need as they walk out of the church into their daily routine.

"We know he did not die in vain," Mugisha says. "One day we shall be accepted."

[KCKID]

*Not just a hateful message to gay people but also to atheists and every other religious group in the world that isn't Christian.

And other christians, I might add.

Yes, to be sure.

[Haven]

And, they are but three of MANY such sociopathic/psychopathic preachers who 99percent claims don't exist. That said, I'm pretty sure 99percent has mentioned previously that he preaches his anti-gay message in other Churches in other areas. I wonder how his anti-gay Christian message compares to that of these 'men of God' ...? Perhaps he can shed some light on this when he returns to the forum.

Oh, those three are bit a slice of the many virulently homophobic and heterosexist "Christian" preachers out there. Here are some more:

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

We'll see if 99 comes back to defend his view (I doubt it).

[KCKID]

And, they are but three of MANY such sociopathic/psychopathic preachers who 99percent claims don't exist. That said, I'm pretty sure 99percent has mentioned previously that he preaches his anti-gay message in other Churches in other areas. I wonder how his anti-gay Christian message compares to that of these 'men of God' ...? Perhaps he can shed some light on this when he returns to the forum.

Oh, those three are bit a slice of the many virulently homophobic and heterosexist "Christian" preachers out there. Here are some more:

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

[youtube][/youtube]

We'll see if 99 comes back to defend his view (I doubt it).

Well, it would appear that 99percent's Christian task is to spread his anti-gay message to whoever will listen. He won't be deterred that easily. No, I'm quite sure that he'll be back with a whole sackful of subterfuge and red herrings and scriptures that have nothing to do with the topic . . .

[help3434]

Haven

4) What can LGBT people who want to join your religion / worship your brand of god do?

Why would they want to, other than spread gay culrture and the gay agenda?
Orientation means to show someone the way. To teach them a direction to head in.
Yuck.

Or maybe they want to join because they think that it is true. Isn't that why you became a Christian? Or maybe you became a Christian because you wanted to spread your anti-Gay agenda. Yuck.

[99percentatheism]

Haven

4) What can LGBT people who want to join your religion / worship your brand of god do?

Why would they want to, other than spread gay culrture and the gay agenda?
Orientation means to show someone the way. To teach them a direction to head in.
Yuck.

Or maybe they want to join because they think that it is true. Isn't that why you became a Christian? Or maybe you became a Christian because you wanted to spread your anti-Gay agenda. Yuck.

[Wootah]

We'll see if 99 comes back to defend his view (I doubt it).

Moderator Warning


Please don't talk about other members of the forum and no one is obliged to continue posting here.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Wootah]

Well, it would appear that 99percent's Christian task is to spread his anti-gay message to whoever will listen. He won't be deterred that easily. No, I'm quite sure that he'll be back with a whole sackful of subterfuge and red herrings and scriptures that have nothing to do with the topic . . .

Moderator Warning


It's totally out of line to be talking about other members on this forum in this fashion, in almost any fashion. We debate the topic and not the debater.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[99percentatheism]

How many Christians went to their death as martyrs for no other reason than for preaching the Gospel?

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Here is what the Sodomites threatened Lot with for "preaching" to them:

“Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.� They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

- Genesis 19

Was Lot a judgmental religious bigot?

What could be "worse" to have happen to a person than a mob of men commiting gang rape on the two same gender visitors to Lot?

What would be the condition of a person's life if they had their business boycotted and shut down for no other reason than believing in marriage as Jesus defined it?

[KCKID]

How many Christians went to their death as martyrs for no other reason than for preaching the Gospel?

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

In psychology, a person who has a martyr complex desires the feeling of being a martyr for his/her own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it feeds a psychological need.

Here is what the Sodomites threatened Lot with for "preaching" to them:

“Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.� They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

- Genesis 19

Was Lot a judgmental religious bigot?

What could be "worse" to have happen to a person than a mob of men commiting gang rape on the two same gender visitors to Lot?

What would be the condition of a person's life if they had their business boycotted and shut down for no other reason than believing in marriage as Jesus defined it?

I received a mod warning for stating that 99percent would be back with more red herrings, subterfuge and scriptures irrelevant to the topic. Need I say more ...?

[Ooberman]

How many Christians went to their death as martyrs for no other reason than for preaching the Gospel?

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

Here is what the Sodomites threatened Lot with for "preaching" to them:

“Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.� They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

- Genesis 19

Was Lot a judgmental religious bigot?

What could be "worse" to have happen to a person than a mob of men commiting gang rape on the two same gender visitors to Lot?

What would be the condition of a person's life if they had their business boycotted and shut down for no other reason than believing in marriage as Jesus defined it?

Since your beliefs about what God wants are your own thoughts, how are we supposed to read this as anything but you would want women raped before people refuse to worship your moral values?

I don't think you do. I think you are a better person than the God of the Bible.

Trust your heart - know that you don't need to defend the monster Yahweh, or the animals who worship him.