Why is sex outside of marriage wrong?

[RUSLAN]

I'll ask a very simple question.

In Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, sex is allowed only within marriage.

Of course there are some believers who do not really agree with this, but my question is for those who do agree with it.

Can someone (Christian, Muslim, or Jew) explain why sex outside of marriage is wrong, but without citing any religious text(s)?

[Danmark]

the best definition of a biblical marriage was simply a personal agreement between two people to shack up together.

Well, let's say you wisely have modified your point from claiming that you were giving a "biblical definition" to now saying its the "the best defintion" (best in your OPINON of course)

I don't agree it's the best defintion at all but at least you won't have painted yourself into a corner by claiming your "best defintion" is a "bibiblical definition" and that's the only point I was making.

Have a good one,

JW

I don't know why this discussion has veered into a personal disagreement about the definition of marriage or whether the Bible has a definition of marriage. The OP was clear:

In Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, sex is allowed only within marriage

The issue is why sex should be limited to married people. The issue is not about some arcane red herring about how a marriage is solemnized.

[mitty]

the best definition of a biblical marriage was simply a personal agreement between two people to shack up together.

Well, let's say you wisely have modified your point from claiming that you were giving a "biblical definition" to now saying its the "the best defintion" (best in your OPINON of course)

I don't agree it's the best defintion at all but at least you won't have painted yourself into a corner by claiming your "best defintion" is a "bibiblical definition" and that's the only point I was making.

Have a good one,

JW

I don't know why this discussion has veered into a personal disagreement about the definition of marriage or whether the Bible has a definition of marriage. The OP was clear:

In Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, sex is allowed only within marriage

The issue is why sex should be limited to married people. The issue is not about some arcane red herring about how a marriage is solemnized.

But unless you can define what marriage is for those religions then you can't define what premarital sex is and the OP is meaningless. If, however, a marriage is simply defined as a legally signed marriage contract to protect the legal rights of the signees and any children, then premarital sex is irrelevant and is only a "try-before-buy" option and to be recommended.

[Wootah]

Can you explain why God would be so against it?

No, not in THIS thread because the explaination is in bible texts and reference to any bible text has been prohibited by the asker.

So you can't come up with any logical or rational reasons why God would be against it without resorting to scripture?

Clownboat seems to be suggesting unwanted babies is a reason to not have sex before marriage. I think as well sex before marriage is abuse, even if it is mutually agreed abuse. Both people are stealing from each other and in effect are saying to each other, 'you are not worthy of marriage but I want the goods anyway.'

A friend of mine recently got married to the same woman after 6 children. Even after all that time he finally succumbed to the shame of not doing right by her in marriage.

I imagine it is hard to tell children they have value when sex before marriage tells them they have no value or more specifically tells they their value is defined.

Finally sex is powerful, my experience was I stayed way too long in bad relationships due to getting sex. One should try to learn about the personality first.

[OnceConvinced]

Can you explain why God would be so against it?

No, not in THIS thread because the explaination is in bible texts and reference to any bible text has been prohibited by the asker.

So you can't come up with any logical or rational reasons why God would be against it without resorting to scripture?

Clownboat seems to be suggesting unwanted babies is a reason to not have sex before marriage. I think as well sex before marriage is abuse, even if it is mutually agreed abuse. Both people are stealing from each other and in effect are saying to each other, 'you are not worthy of marriage but I want the goods anyway.'

I think you are trying to sanctify sex too much. Sex is something our species has a drive for. A natural urge. Animals do not get married, they just have sex. It seems to be a religious thing to try to make out sex to be something more special than any other natural human urge or function.

Likewise, you are also trying to make marriage into something sacred. A religious thing. As if marriage is the be all and end all of a female/male relationship. Marriage is simply a public declaration of your commitment to another person. If a person requires a signed piece of paper before they will pledge their loyalty to someone, then there is something seriously wrong with their morals.

To me marriage is simply just a big waste of money and something that is totally unnecessary if you are in a relationship. When I am with a woman, I am loyal to her and I treat her like a wife. Why should I need a piece of paper that makes it official?

Both my current partner and I are completely dedicated to each other, but have no desire to waste money or time on a primitive ceremony just to show our commitment to one another. Nor do we feel as if we’re “abusing� or “stealing� from the other.

I see nothing logical about that way of thinking. What I do see is religious attitudes coming in and making more of something than what it deserves.

A friend of mine recently got married to the same woman after 6 children. Even after all that time he finally succumbed to the shame of not doing right by her in marriage.

Marriage is no guarantee. People cheat. Divorces happen. They’re easy enough to get. You can even annul your marriage after a few days. Some people get married just so they can start having sex. I know of many Christians who have rushed into marriage just so they can get to the sex part and then what often happens? They find that they are sexually incompatible so end up in a marriage where they get no satisfaction out of their sex life. Why would we want to push people into this situation when there’s no real good reason to?

Why can’t people dedicate themselves to each other without the need for an official declaration? I for one need no such declaration to enable me to be committed to my partner.

I imagine it is hard to tell children they have value when sex before marriage tells them they have no value or more specifically tells they their value is defined.

If people didn’t make such a big deal about sex it wouldn’t be an issue. But no, religion has tried to make sex so sacred as if it’s something that defines your value. It’s religion that has made virginity something that is such a huge deal. You can teach your children their value without the need to make a big deal about sex.

Finally sex is powerful, my experience was I stayed way too long in bad relationships due to getting sex. One should try to learn about the personality first.

It’s only powerful because religious people have made such a big deal about it. It’s only powerful because society has made it that way. In the animal kingdom it isn’t such a big deal… at least with most species. We as humans have made it the big deal it is. If you realise it is a natural human urge that has given us an evolutionary advantage, then it loses its power.

As for getting to know someone, I agree, we should, but it should be done first before marrying them. Jumping into marriage is not a healthy thing and has caused so many problems in this world. In fact I would say it’s crucial to live with your partner as you would as if you were married BEFORE you are married. It’s only logical and sensible, because too many people have married someone and then discovered they were impossible to live with or they changed after marriage. Some people are great until you get married. Once they realise they have you, their true selves come out, but by then it’s too late. You’re married. I would never want to fall into that trap.

I myself have moved in with two women before marriage up until now and I sure am glad I never married them first, because once I lived with them I found out things about them I would never have known if we had never lived together. Things that required us to be living in the same house as equals first.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 41 by OnceConvinced]

Well it's good enough for ME, and for millions of Christians. That's a fact and one I'm pointing out. That it's not good enough for others is irrelevant to the above fact. So your counterpoint is totally irrelevant to the fact stated.

To illustrate: If somebody pointed out "That house on fire" and you pointed out "Millions of houses are NOT on fire" that response is irrelevant to the point made. It is true, millions of houses are not on fire, but how does that stop your walls from melting?

We can contend the information therein, ie "Is the house REALLY on fire", so the question "Do you REALLY believe that the bible's direction should guide your life on the question of sex outside marriage" is a relevant question, but to contend that others do not believe that is good enough (while true) is irrelevant to the statement of fact made.

All I'm asking for is rational reasons why it's such a problem. If you can't give them, just admit you can't. Admit that it's all because "the bible says so".

[Wootah]

[Replying to OnceConvinced]

Natural urges does not mean permissible urges. Sex is not like breathing or eating. You can live without it.

Why do atheists think comparing themselves to animals is a point in their favor? Perhaps then marriage is somehow important to our evolution?

Actually you are turning sex into something sacred - you are almost arguing it is a right. I think my reasons stand alone without God.

I don't think a marriage needs a piece of paper to be valid. I think two people's promises to each other are sufficient and I am happy to keep the government out of marriage totally. But if you haven't vowed monogamy for life then there will always be wiggle room available. Marriage is really about the for worse not the for better.

You appear to have made promises to your partner that equal marriage. What are the conditions under which it would be OK to sleep around?

None of my points are specifically religious.

[Clownboat]

Can you explain why God would be so against it?

No, not in THIS thread because the explaination is in bible texts and reference to any bible text has been prohibited by the asker.

So you can't come up with any logical or rational reasons why God would be against it without resorting to scripture?

Clownboat seems to be suggesting unwanted babies is a reason to not have sex before marriage.

I said that people who assume that they will wait until marriage generally don't, which is a cause of unwanted babies due to the participants not being prepared. Why would you think to carry a condom if you didn't plan to have sex?

I think as well sex before marriage is abuse, even if it is mutually agreed abuse.

As well?!? If you think that I think that sex before marriage is abuse, you are also wrong on that account.

Both people are stealing from each other and in effect are saying to each other, 'you are not worthy of marriage but I want the goods anyway.'

You may think this, but please show that this is true. You see, these are words we use to tell teens in church in order for them to buy into the promise ring deal or to think that they will stay celibate until marriage. IMO, they do not reflect reality.

A friend of mine recently got married to the same woman after 6 children. Even after all that time he finally succumbed to the shame of not doing right by her in marriage.

What is your point? Should we all feel this mans shame? If so, why? Why would a person that doesn't feel shame about something like this feel shame? It seems like you are making a claim about some guy, inserting shame and then projecting that on to the rest of us.

I imagine it is hard to tell children they have value when sex before marriage tells them they have no value or more specifically tells they their value is defined.

I value children the same no matter if they are a product of a married couple or not. Shame on you is all I can say here!

Finally sex is powerful, my experience was I stayed way too long in bad relationships due to getting sex. One should try to learn about the personality first.

I'm sorry about this and I wish you would have made better decisions.

[Robert H]

[Replying to post 1 by RUSLAN]

It simply has to do with the sacredness of the procreative powers and the responsibility to raise children correctly. If God put Adam and Eve on the earth, why couldnt he just put everyone. Why does he have to have us create the bodies for his children? Think about that. It's a special power that he shares with us. He expects us to use this power correctly and if you want to continue to create into the eternities, you better use the power wisely.

[Logicaloutreach]

[Replying to post 1 by RUSLAN]


The main reason is because of the bonding and reproduction process of humans. Also when humans put sex first. They bond with each other without knowing if they are compatible. Since child psychological development depends on the chemistry of the parents it is damaging to future generations. Endangering the future of man kind. By having severely emotionally disturbed children. The more meaningless the sex the desensitized to human life a person becomes!

Sex without marriage has countless negative outcomes that could affect humanity as a whole!

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 78 by Logicaloutreach]

That's an argument against having children without a stable family, not an argument against sex outside marriage.