The Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

The Gay Denomination.

For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?

Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?

Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.

Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?

[Filthy Tugboat]

The Church is infallible, not necessarily the people within it. You are treading on a very profound ideology of the Church. Semantics are not going to propel your argument.

But the church is considered to be infallible and innerrant. I didn't mean it's followers were, I meant to correct you when you said that infallible in the case of the church doesn't necessarily mean innerant.

I gave the verse which tells of Peter's Church. If the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it, how is it not infallible? It's been nearly 2000 years and it is still as prevalent as it always has been.

Before this could be considered evidence you would have to show that the Gates of Hell are real, that the Gates of Hell can prevail against anything, that the Gates of Hell's inability to prevail against something proves that that thing is infallible. You might also have to show that 2000 years is a meaningful expanse of time in this matter.

Seriously, what argument can you produce against an active *to this day* charge by Christ?

I don't have to supply any arguments, it's an unverified, unsupported claim. The Bible claims Peter started a church, the Catholics claim their church was the church started by Peter, there is no evidece to support either claim. Only tradition.

*Weeds will be weeded out*. This is also a biblical truth.

I find "Biblical Truth's" and "actual truth's" to often be quite different.

The Church can and has stumbled, but it will never be prevailed by Hell.

I don't really know what "prevailed by Hell" means or if it is even an actual thing but if the Church has "stumbled" does that not mean that it is in fact fallible?

If I had a nickel..
The Church cannot be breached. You know (or should know) the Church's history.

Some of it, i do not claim to be an expert on the subject.

Why is it still there?

Because it has followers? As far as I'm aware, the Church hasn't really come under hardship until the last century when people have actually investigated the things it and it's members have done. Prior to this century it appears to have been exempt from scrutiny probably due to the fear it inspires in so many. The church has been known to use it's influence to quell those that disagree with it or shine it in a negative light, take Galileo for example and he didn't even do anything to the church, he just proposed an alternative theory to how the world works. If this is how the Church is willing to act in regards to science, how strongly has it acted in the past to matters of faith? The Crusades are a good example. My point is that the RCC's flippant use of force and destruction on anything that opposes or even presents an alternative is a good answer to why it still exists.

All other churches have deviated.

Many Churches think the RCC has deviated.

Do you not understand the significance of that? Peter's Church has not accepted gays and it never will because it is THE CHURCH.

This is still an unsupported claim.

That is how alien homosexuality is to holiness.,

Your interpretation of Holiness*

it's not even given in canonical history.

The evidence is in what you witness.

The evidence is flimsy at best, perhaps entirely non-existent.

This conversation is not about your personal worldview.

No, it's about whether the RCC is "the one true church started by Peter in the Bible".

Quite frankly, I could care less about the atheist inquisition. I personally find it to be vain and otherwise stupid. Your life is not affected by religion, you are as atheist as a rock and your life mimics that standing., don't pretend as if your inquiry is pertaining to anything more then deep seeded selfish agendas.

I was pretending?

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Looky, the Bible comes right out and says it (for the hundredth time posting it). Therefore, the true church is the Catholic Church. There is simply no way around that fact.

Have you read any responses over the last few pages, the Bible claims Peter started a Church (unverified). The RCC claims it is the Church the Bible claims Peter started (unverified). You've given no support for the claim, only some bs about hell prevailing against the church or not, something you are yet to clarify despite my request. Don't get all antsy because you can't or won't back up your claims.

[KCKID]

Agreed. The anti-homosexual Christian is often raging in his disregard of homosexuality; one wonders what Jesus would do to such religious bigots to get them to turn the other cheek, tend their own gardens, and quit throwing stones of judgement upon their neighbors.

Yep. The very vocal anti-gay element within Christianity (I'm not implying that all, or even most, Christians are anti-gay, only that a significant portion are) has really soured me on the faith. I really don't think I can be associated with it anymore, despite my Christian upbringing and appreciation for Biblical themes / non-theistic theology / non-realist faith. The fact that a religious movement originally based around love, tolerance, and social justice has become a conduit for bigotry, prejudice, greed, and right-wing extremism is both ironic and sad. If Jesus could see what has become of the movement he started, he would probably be sick.

Well said ...also Flail.

I felt the need to say something else to those with some form of faith who might be despairing about this extreme form of Christianity which appears to be devoid of everything that it's supposed to stand for but I can't find the words right now ...unusual for me.

[SilenceInMotion]

Agreed. The anti-homosexual Christian is often raging in his disregard of homosexuality; one wonders what Jesus would do to such religious bigots to get them to turn the other cheek, tend their own gardens, and quit throwing stones of judgement upon their neighbors.

Yep. The very vocal anti-gay element within Christianity (I'm not implying that all, or even most, Christians are anti-gay, only that a significant portion are) has really soured me on the faith. I really don't think I can be associated with it anymore, despite my Christian upbringing and appreciation for Biblical themes / non-theistic theology / non-realist faith. The fact that a religious movement originally based around love, tolerance, and social justice has become a conduit for bigotry, prejudice, greed, and right-wing extremism is both ironic and sad. If Jesus could see what has become of the movement he started, he would probably be sick.

Well said ...also Flail.

I felt the need to say something else to those with some form of faith who might be despairing about this extreme form of Christianity which appears to be devoid of everything that it's supposed to stand for but I can't find the words right now ...unusual for me.

Lol, only a minority of 'Christians' are pro-homosexual. Thinking otherwise is simply delusional. You are delirious and liberally drunk if you think that more then, lets say, 20% of alleged Christendom is for homosexuality.
It is simply unorthodox and heretical to say that homosexuals have any place in the kingdom. Scripture comes right out and says it to your face.

[Filthy Tugboat]

Agreed. The anti-homosexual Christian is often raging in his disregard of homosexuality; one wonders what Jesus would do to such religious bigots to get them to turn the other cheek, tend their own gardens, and quit throwing stones of judgement upon their neighbors.

Yep. The very vocal anti-gay element within Christianity (I'm not implying that all, or even most, Christians are anti-gay, only that a significant portion are) has really soured me on the faith. I really don't think I can be associated with it anymore, despite my Christian upbringing and appreciation for Biblical themes / non-theistic theology / non-realist faith. The fact that a religious movement originally based around love, tolerance, and social justice has become a conduit for bigotry, prejudice, greed, and right-wing extremism is both ironic and sad. If Jesus could see what has become of the movement he started, he would probably be sick.

Well said ...also Flail.

I felt the need to say something else to those with some form of faith who might be despairing about this extreme form of Christianity which appears to be devoid of everything that it's supposed to stand for but I can't find the words right now ...unusual for me.

Lol, only a minority of 'Christians' are pro-homosexual. Thinking otherwise is simply delusional. You are delirious and liberally drunk if you think that more then, lets say, 20% of alleged Christendom is for homosexuality.

You would be surprised at the amount, i know some Catholics who are pro-homosexual. This may be due to a lack of education on the churches doctrines but none the less, they are practicing Catholics and they see no problem with granting Gay rights (not about marrying homosexuals in a catholic church but they have no problem with gay marriage as far as legality goes).

It is simply unorthodox and heretical to say that homosexuals have any place in the kingdom. Scripture comes right out and says it to your face.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe "scripture" isn't the be all and end all of everything? Or are you a Biblical literalist?

[cnorman18]

Lol, only a minority of 'Christians' are pro-homosexual. Thinking otherwise is simply delusional. You are delirious and liberally drunk if you think that more then, lets say, 20% of alleged Christendom is for homosexuality.

Sorry, factually false.

From the Pew survey that has been cited here many times:

Percentage of Christians, by religious tradition, who believe that homosexuals should be accepted by society:

Evangelical churches -- 25%
Mainline churches -- 56%
Historically black churches -- 39%
Catholics -- 58%
Orthodox -- 48%
Other Christians -- 69%

And, just for the record:

Jews -- 79%

[Moses Yoder]

Homosexuality is a mortal sin and those who practice it will not inherit the kingdom.

This is a fact noted in Scripture. Peter's Church has stood fast against it, unlike others, because Hell cannot prevail against it. This is also noted in Scripture.
If you are not Roman Catholic, you are a heretic. Homosexuality is a deviance that will be exacted.

Where can I find a list of all the sins the Pope considers mortal, and why they are mortal? More than just the one sin that you say is mortal. TGA mentioned that pre-marital sex was also a mortal sin a while back. It would be interesting to know why sex is a mortal sin and speeding is not (I assume it isn't?). Another question, when you commit a mortal sin, how do you manage to be forgiven of it? Please excuse my ignorance of the Catholic church.

I want to know why homosexuality is considered a mortal sin by the Catholic church and speeding and pedophilia are not (I assume they are not). I assume the answer is "Because I said so." You know, that never held much water with me as a child, and even less now.

[Moses Yoder]

It's been nearly 2000 years and it is still as prevalent as it always has been. Seriously, what argument can you produce against an active *to this day* charge by Christ?

The Catholic church has not always been prevalent. By your own admission, it has been less than 2000 years. How old do you think the earth is? I bet Devil worship has been prevalent for a longer period of time. Does that make it infallible?

[kayky]

Silenceinmotion, I notice that you have not responded to my claim that it was the vast abuses of the Catholic church that led to Protestantism in the first place. How does that fit in with your idea of God's one true Church?

[connermt]

Silenceinmotion: The Catholic Church IS Christianity. It is the correct definition and practice of the religion of Christ. Scripture gives overwhelming evidence of such and even declares others as heretics right on.

Please show me the scripture that states the RRC is the only true church.

If TRCC is the correct practice of Christ, I'd also like to see where Christ moved around child molestors so they couldn't be found out.

Homosexuals you mean? Why did the pro homosexuals in the RCC keep moving around the other homosexuals that went after boys?

There is a good reason why Evangelicals have such tredpidation about having homosexuality condoned.

Call them what you want. The church of the great god still tried to hide it instead of dealing with it. That seems very "humanistic" than godly.

"By their fruit you will know them."

Christians don't believe everyone that claims to be a Christian is for real. There is a good reason why what Jesus taught should be believed.

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

"Trust in allah, but tie up your camel."

"trust, but verify."

Etc., etc., etc..

That does nothing to excuse their actions. If the RCC thought they weren't christian, they should have been REMOVED fromt he church, not just MOVED AROUND the church.
But just like god, TRCC allowed it to happen, again and again and again, so they are just are responsible.

[SilenceInMotion]

Agreed. The anti-homosexual Christian is often raging in his disregard of homosexuality; one wonders what Jesus would do to such religious bigots to get them to turn the other cheek, tend their own gardens, and quit throwing stones of judgement upon their neighbors.

Yep. The very vocal anti-gay element within Christianity (I'm not implying that all, or even most, Christians are anti-gay, only that a significant portion are) has really soured me on the faith. I really don't think I can be associated with it anymore, despite my Christian upbringing and appreciation for Biblical themes / non-theistic theology / non-realist faith. The fact that a religious movement originally based around love, tolerance, and social justice has become a conduit for bigotry, prejudice, greed, and right-wing extremism is both ironic and sad. If Jesus could see what has become of the movement he started, he would probably be sick.

Well said ...also Flail.

I felt the need to say something else to those with some form of faith who might be despairing about this extreme form of Christianity which appears to be devoid of everything that it's supposed to stand for but I can't find the words right now ...unusual for me.

Lol, only a minority of 'Christians' are pro-homosexual. Thinking otherwise is simply delusional. You are delirious and liberally drunk if you think that more then, lets say, 20% of alleged Christendom is for homosexuality.

You would be surprised at the amount, i know some Catholics who are pro-homosexual. This may be due to a lack of education on the churches doctrines but none the less, they are practicing Catholics and they see no problem with granting Gay rights (not about marrying homosexuals in a catholic church but they have no problem with gay marriage as far as legality goes).

It is simply unorthodox and heretical to say that homosexuals have any place in the kingdom. Scripture comes right out and says it to your face.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe "scripture" isn't the be all and end all of everything? Or are you a Biblical literalist?

No, you would be surprised by the amount of nonsense people will say to produce such a lie. Most Christians simply do not believe homosexuality is okay. Atheists and liberals have gotten so bent out of shape, they think they can just posit something and it becomes true. Abrahamic religion damns homosexuality, it has always been that way, and nine out of every ten churches you happen by will tell you that homosexuality is a mortal deviance.

And I am Roman Catholic.