Ghosts,Hauntings and the Paranormal

[Squall]

I am wondering what are your views on Ghosts, Spirits, Hanutings, demonic activity, poltergeist and other such paranormal phenomenon. Do you see these things as ridiculous and imposible, probable, or are you definitely sure these things exists. If you are sure do to real life experience please share, and how do these experiences fit into your worldview?

[QED]

Once again I completely concur with everything you say.
Alot of people like myself; who have had these experiences are as skeptical as most people.
I would rather be able to explain all of the experiences away as natural; but unfortunately I cant.

With respect, I have to point out that your failure to identify a natural explanation does not in itself force a conclusion that the event has to be supernatural. At the risk of raising a big yawn form anyone that has seen me refer to the 'old hag' before, I will recall it once more because it scared me very effectively until I found out what was happening. Several times I have been under the impression that I was awake either in bed or relaxing on a sofa when I experienced some alarming sensations ranging from incredibly loud sounds (persistent and noisy like: "what the heck is that!" type sounds) or the feeling that something was either pulling the bed-sheets off of me, or was sat pressing down on me with a great weight!

Now on each occasion I noticed that the sensations were very 'real' and that I was perceiving them in exactly the same way that I perceive everything else that goes on, yet I knew that it was happening when I was close to being asleep. This was the clue that led me to find out about the 'old hag syndrome'. Although when all this was going on there was no internet and it took a while to find out about it. In this case sleep paralysis and the vagaries of the brain on the threshold of sleep underline how our sense of reality isn't always as reliable as we tend to think it is. Odd things can also happen when in states other than sleepiness. Hypnotism for example is rooted in this hinterland. But even when wide awake, we are unaware of the processing shortcuts that our brains take in order to minimise the 'load' of dealing with our surroundings. This is how we become disorientated and susceptible to things like optical illusions. It's a huge subject, but it turns out that our cognition is a lot more fallible than our daily experience suggests to us.

So, rather than there being a realm of paranormal activity intersecting with the 'real world' I suggest that we are experiencing a rift in our own connection to the world through the 'mechanics' of our brains. This is why we cannot 'get hold' of it by any scientific means.

Science is a wonderful thing it can do wonderful things for us, but relies purely on what it can see and measure ect.

Well this is why I italicized 'scientific means' above. Science isn't a thing, it's a method. Like counting your money rather than saying "I think I've got enough for lunch". The world presents itself to us by virtue of matter (which is also energy) and forces. Our interpretation of these is not entirely complete however we can identify the 'big picture' and biologists have confirmed that living things are also tuned-in to the same physical world. For example, moths have tiny TV aerial-like antennae that receive long-wavelength light. Similarly all our sensory organs betray their own particular 'wavelengths' and such sensors are always stylized to meet those constraints. Thus we have a good handle on what information is being sent and received.

Do you say that faith doesn't exist because you cannot prove it exists scientifically?
Come to that; is faith always there to measure at that particular moment in time, if we could measure it?

Faith is a mental state is it not? A belief in supernatural powers? This is all about information when it comes down to it. If you meant soul or spirituality then the same answer applies.

[windy]

[Faith is a mental state is it not? A belief in supernatural powers? This is all about information when it comes down to it. If you meant soul or spirituality then the same answer applies.

I see faith as a spiritual state; rather than a mental state, that is why some people confuse the belief in science as a pseudo religion.
I will explain that which I have said.
To alot of people, Darwinism is spoken of in such matter of fact terms that it is taken to be the ultimate truth, television programs speak of evolution in such terms that we all take it for granted; that the people who tell us these things are correct.
When we all learn and decide for ourselves what to believe, the belief system we develop ; must have a bedrock of faith, beit in science or religion.We also have faith as viewers that the programs of these program makers are correct.
We dont see it at the time of watching maybe but at a later date we may look back and realise that we believed by blind faith.
I respectfuly put it to you; that your beliefs are based on a bedrock of faith no less, or more valid than anyone elses in this forum.
Every religion, every science,every opinion we put forward is based on faith,as we get to know more of the world, and worlds we live in, I suspect that many of us may change those opinions.
Until then we can have marvelous discusions like these .
The one thing I know for sure is that the longer I live the less I know

[QED]

I respectfuly put it to you; that your beliefs are based on a bedrock of faith no less, or more valid than anyone elses in this forum.
Every religion, every science,every opinion we put forward is based on faith,as we get to know more of the world, and worlds we live in, I suspect that many of us may change those opinions.

So how do you address the obvious difference between your faith in having enough money to buy your lunch, compared to having counted your money?

[windy]

I respectfuly put it to you; that your beliefs are based on a bedrock of faith no less, or more valid than anyone elses in this forum.
Every religion, every science,every opinion we put forward is based on faith,as we get to know more of the world, and worlds we live in, I suspect that many of us may change those opinions.

So how do you address the obvious difference between your faith in having enough money to buy your lunch, compared to having counted your money?

I am sorry I dont understand the question. Could you explain?

[QED]

You were trying to suggest that all belief in information we obtain from the world amounts to faith. I disagree with this and have tried to present you with a simple example that shows how a critical approach can provide us with a whole class of information that does not depend on faith.

[windy]

You were trying to suggest that all belief in information we obtain from the world amounts to faith. I disagree with this and have tried to present you with a simple example that shows how a critical approach can provide us with a whole class of information that does not depend on faith.

I was suggesting that most of the information we gather is; not all.
Some things I suppose we need no faith in.
We started off by discussing ghosts how did we get on to this?
it was probably me going off on a tangent.

[windy]

I am wondering what are your views on Ghosts, Spirits, Hanutings, demonic activity, poltergeist and other such paranormal phenomenon. Do you see these things as ridiculous and imposible, probable, or are you definitely sure these things exists. If you are sure do to real life experience please share, and how do these experiences fit into your worldview?

Who were you asking the question of Sqall?

[QED]

I was suggesting that most of the information we gather is; not all.
Some things I suppose we need no faith in.
We started off by discussing ghosts how did we get on to this?
it was probably me going off on a tangent.

Is it really off on a tangent? I think it's central to this discussion. I believe that the whole issue of the supernatural is a hang-over from the past where very little critical thinking was applied to the range of phenomena exhibited by the world that people were living in. But if you appreciate that there are methods by which we can establish facts without resorting to faith, then it follows that the world can be evaluated in a reliable way. It is purely a question of approach. It strikes me that it is down to individual choice which method is used and I for one don't want to risk missing-out on lunch.

[windy]

[It is purely a question of approach. It strikes me that it is down to individual choice which method is used and I for one don't want to risk missing-out on lunch.

I can see why you think that way I feel that way to at times.
Maybe somethings are a hangover from the past.
I feel we have more in common than you realise.
It is as you say a matter of approach and choice .
I never discount anybodies personal experience; and always try to realise that life is one big learning process.
I now believe things I would never thought I could believe.

[Squall]

Well, if anyone can prove the existence of paranormal activity, it sounds like you could! Have you ever considered getting hold of one of those camera-phones so it's always handy for taking a movie so that everyone can see what's going on? This is the whole issue really, repeatability. Honestly, I'm a great skeptic but not a cynic.

Every study of suspected haunted activity usually happens over a period of a few days, small teams of researchers with cameras,infa red and the like and other equipment go in study find some anomalies and not much else. When I think back on the frequency of events of a paranormal nature I would say I personally will experience something very strange maybe 4 or 5 times a year. So I would have to have a camera on me at all times when Im at home and be ready and alert for something to happen. To give you an idea what odd timing these things can occur. I once saw a grey hand grasping the outer edge of my bath tub (the hand being in the bathtub) and then pull back into the bathtub beyond my field of vision while I was on the toilet going number 2 in the middle of the afternoon. Trust me that is the last time you would expect anything odd to happen.