Welcome!

[His Name Is John]

It seems to me, that new members rarely post a introduction thread anymore. As such I am making this thread as a way that new members can say hi, and get to know a couple of people on the forums.

So to all the new members:

First of all, hello!

Second, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[tam]

Perhaps I will stop over using a specific word here too!

Lol.


Thank you for your welcome, Clownboat. I do not mind answering your questions. I just did not want to hog the intro thread. I will try to answer your questions, but totally understand if a mod deletes or moves them if this is not the right thread to do this.

I was just curious how a person can consider themselves a Christian, follow the teachings in the Bible, yet not qualify to be classified as following a religion. Thus I submitted the definition.

Perhaps because I follow Christ and listen to Him, first and foremost. Sometimes following Christ and what He teaches coincides with what is written about in the Bible. Sometimes what is written is (or seems to be) in conflict with what He teaches.



I am not sure about this definition of religion:

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe.

I do not have an organized collection of beliefs unless you were to count that my faith is in Christ, that I believe all that He says and obey Him. (though I certainly do fall short at various times)

I don't have a cultural system that I am aware of. I am not entirely sure what that means though.

So I really cannot say that I follow a religion, when what (or rather who) I follow is a person: Christ.


Does that help? Or not, lol?


In any case, thank you again for the welcome, and I look forward to talking with you more.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Clownboat]

Perhaps I will stop over using a specific word here too!

Lol.


Thank you for your welcome, Clownboat. I do not mind answering your questions. I just did not want to hog the intro thread. I will try to answer your questions, but totally understand if a mod deletes or moves them if this is not the right thread to do this.

I was just curious how a person can consider themselves a Christian, follow the teachings in the Bible, yet not qualify to be classified as following a religion. Thus I submitted the definition.

Perhaps because I follow Christ and listen to Him, first and foremost. Sometimes following Christ and what He teaches coincides with what is written about in the Bible. Sometimes what is written is (or seems to be) in conflict with what He teaches.



I am not sure about this definition of religion:

A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe.

I do not have an organized collection of beliefs unless you were to count that my faith is in Christ, that I believe all that He says and obey Him. (though I certainly do fall short at various times)

I don't have a cultural system that I am aware of. I am not entirely sure what that means though.

So I really cannot say that I follow a religion, when what (or rather who) I follow is a person: Christ.


Does that help? Or not, lol?


In any case, thank you again for the welcome, and I look forward to talking with you more.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

That does help.

I do disagree though, since I must assume your world views (original sin, marriage perhaps and abortion perhaps for example) stem from the Bible stories, and then there are stories written about Jesus whom you claim to be a slave for that I must assume affect your view of the world. Also, you claim to follow a person, but unless you interact with Christ himself, you must get your info on Christ from the Bible like everyone else.

If you are a slave to Christ, I assume you must read the Bible (because that is the only book that speaks about said man). Therefore, we can read the Bible and understand that it includes narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.), the origin of life (Genesis), or the Universe (Genesis).

Not knowing your official stance on any of this, I admit I could be fully wrong and might owe you a retraction. For now, it does seem that you belong to a religion.

Thanks for you words. Perhaps in another thread this will come up and we can discuss further.
Be well.

[Papa Zoom]

[Replying to post 1 by His Name Is John]

I joined some time ago but don't remember posting anything. Am here to enjoy conversations, meet new friends, exercise my brain, and be challenged. I am a school teacher in Washington State (I teach art), I play guitar and play on the worship team, have been a Christian most of my life and love apologetics (yet have much to learn). I am eager to engage and learn from others. I'm married, two grown kids, two beautiful grandkids, and a loving wife. God is good all the time and has seen me through many good and difficult times. I currently study classical, blues, and jazz guitar. Classical is my favorite but I pretty much love all kinds of music. Also I love to read (wife is former librarian and I can't keep up with her!) My tradition is protestantism particularly the Baptist tradition. But I'm not suck in a rut (or try not to be). God bless and looking forward to getting to know folks here.
Dan (aka Papa Zoom (a name given to me by a friend's 6-year-old son))

[ttruscott]

I joined some time ago but don't remember posting anything. Am here to enjoy conversations, meet new friends, exercise my brain, and be challenged. I am a school teacher in Washington State (I teach art), I play guitar and play on the worship team, have been a Christian most of my life and love apologetics (yet have much to learn). I am eager to engage and learn from others. I'm married, two grown kids, two beautiful grandkids, and a loving wife. God is good all the time and has seen me through many good and difficult times. I currently study classical, blues, and jazz guitar. Classical is my favorite but I pretty much love all kinds of music. Also I love to read (wife is former librarian and I can't keep up with her!) My tradition is protestantism particularly the Baptist tradition. But I'm not suck in a rut (or try not to be). God bless and looking forward to getting to know folks here.

Dan (aka Papa Zoom (a name given to me by a friend's 6-year-old son))

Hi Dan, I bid you welcome. Your efforts will be appreciated,

peace, Ted

[Haven]

Welcome!

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 1 by His Name Is John]

I joined some time ago but don't remember posting anything. Am here to enjoy conversations, meet new friends, exercise my brain, and be challenged. I am a school teacher in Washington State (I teach art), I play guitar and play on the worship team, have been a Christian most of my life and love apologetics (yet have much to learn). I am eager to engage and learn from others. I'm married, two grown kids, two beautiful grandkids, and a loving wife. God is good all the time and has seen me through many good and difficult times. I currently study classical, blues, and jazz guitar. Classical is my favorite but I pretty much love all kinds of music. Also I love to read (wife is former librarian and I can't keep up with her!) My tradition is protestantism particularly the Baptist tradition. But I'm not suck in a rut (or try not to be). God bless and looking forward to getting to know folks here.
Dan (aka Papa Zoom (a name given to me by a friend's 6-year-old son))

Welcome Papa Zoom!

[robinriley]

Hello Forum ...

My name is Robin, I live in Washington State, am 66, and retired two years from the DOD. My current special interest is compiling my own reading of Paul's letters, directly from the Byzantine Greek, specifically from "The New Testament in the Original Greek Byzantine Textform 2005," by Maurice Robinson and William Pierpont. I've been at this little project for over 12 years now, and have completed (rough draft) of Paul's 13 episles ... holding off for the moment with Hebrews, which I suspect may have been written by Luke, with Paul's help; will eventually get to it, God willing, but plan on attempting the book of Acts next. I understand that a literal tranlation is a difficult read, but I like it nevertheless, it pleases me to dig deep into the linguistics, and wrestle with the syntax ... the declinations are not a problem, but the parsings drive me crazy! Again, I mentioned the syntax, because the Greek word order is not as demanding as the English, but there are a few "rules" one needs to be aware of ... and having no formal training in the Greek language makes some of these "rules" hard to come by. I usually find out about them when someone more knowledgable thumps, and calls me ignorant ... I've found that simply asking for assistance, neve gets any responses, so I just blantently go boldly with my ignorant readings, until someone feels it necessary to "put me in my"place" ... Thank you very much, now what else can I interest / disturb you linguistically about?

I've looked over the make-up of this forum, and dont really see where I might specifically post a verse or two ... not to talk about what it might mean, necessarrily, but more-so to determine exactly how it is being said by Paul ... via Paul, from God; it's my belief that scripture, the words in scripture are God-breathed. I apologize in advance, if that may disturb anyone, but thump away, if you want, it wont change my mind on this.

And again, whenever I post a particular verse or two (whenever I find the right location to do so, on this forum) ... post a particular verse or two, it will be with the goal of simply trying to determine how best to read the words, themselves ... not to peddle some doctrine. I'm sure you all have your own beliefs, and mind sets, so let's just let these things be ... and move on to actually discuss the verse, itself. I'm harping on this, because I only recently found on another forum, while attempting to discuss the difficult (I think) word usage in Col 2:16-17, that it was almost impossible to keep the conversation on track. That is, almost every response wanted to quickly spin off on some doctrinal tangent, or heap on a number of other, so-called related verses, before ever taking the time and effort to just, first, take a closer look at the few words in these two verses ... actually had one individual tell me that my bringout out the parsing and declenations was harmful to the reader! Sighhhhh .... I'm sure I wont find such shallow and fearful thinking here, right?

So then, that's me ... and my bent ... now then, any suggestions (not that one!)
any suggestions about where, on this forum, I might have the greater success in posting a verse or two, in order to interest others interested in a discussion of the words?

The other immediate question I have ... and I couldn't find any explanation on FAQ ... is what does this mean: ...Note that sending PMs is restricted until you make 5 posts ...
What's a "PM" ??

[Clownboat]

Hello Forum ...

My name is Robin, I live in Washington State, am 66, and retired two years from the DOD. My current special interest is compiling my own reading of Paul's letters, directly from the Byzantine Greek, specifically from "The New Testament in the Original Greek Byzantine Textform 2005," by Maurice Robinson and William Pierpont. I've been at this little project for over 12 years now, and have completed (rough draft) of Paul's 13 episles ... holding off for the moment with Hebrews, which I suspect may have been written by Luke, with Paul's help; will eventually get to it, God willing, but plan on attempting the book of Acts next. I understand that a literal tranlation is a difficult read, but I like it nevertheless, it pleases me to dig deep into the linguistics, and wrestle with the syntax ... the declinations are not a problem, but the parsings drive me crazy! Again, I mentioned the syntax, because the Greek word order is not as demanding as the English, but there are a few "rules" one needs to be aware of ... and having no formal training in the Greek language makes some of these "rules" hard to come by. I usually find out about them when someone more knowledgable thumps, and calls me ignorant ... I've found that simply asking for assistance, neve gets any responses, so I just blantently go boldly with my ignorant readings, until someone feels it necessary to "put me in my"place" ... Thank you very much, now what else can I interest / disturb you linguistically about?

I've looked over the make-up of this forum, and dont really see where I might specifically post a verse or two ... not to talk about what it might mean, necessarrily, but more-so to determine exactly how it is being said by Paul ... via Paul, from God; it's my belief that scripture, the words in scripture are God-breathed. I apologize in advance, if that may disturb anyone, but thump away, if you want, it wont change my mind on this.

And again, whenever I post a particular verse or two (whenever I find the right location to do so, on this forum) ... post a particular verse or two, it will be with the goal of simply trying to determine how best to read the words, themselves ... not to peddle some doctrine. I'm sure you all have your own beliefs, and mind sets, so let's just let these things be ... and move on to actually discuss the verse, itself. I'm harping on this, because I only recently found on another forum, while attempting to discuss the difficult (I think) word usage in Col 2:16-17, that it was almost impossible to keep the conversation on track. That is, almost every response wanted to quickly spin off on some doctrinal tangent, or heap on a number of other, so-called related verses, before ever taking the time and effort to just, first, take a closer look at the few words in these two verses ... actually had one individual tell me that my bringout out the parsing and declenations was harmful to the reader! Sighhhhh .... I'm sure I wont find such shallow and fearful thinking here, right?

So then, that's me ... and my bent ... now then, any suggestions (not that one!)
any suggestions about where, on this forum, I might have the greater success in posting a verse or two, in order to interest others interested in a discussion of the words?

The other immediate question I have ... and I couldn't find any explanation on FAQ ... is what does this mean: ...Note that sending PMs is restricted until you make 5 posts ...
What's a "PM" ??

Welcome!
PM = Private Message

...the words in scripture are God-breathed. I apologize in advance, if that may disturb anyone, but thump away, if you want, it wont change my mind on this.

If you can present a convincing case, I would be willing to once again believe that the scriptures are inspired by a god.

It saddens me to know that you are not willing to change your mind even if new information is presented. People that come here that are so sure of themselves often end up preaching and not debating. I trust that will not be the case with you even though your mind is made up.

IMO, if someone presents a compelling case for something, "my mind is made up" is not a valid rebuttal in debate.
Either way, I hope to learn from your posts. Perhaps some day you will feel the same?

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 294 by robinriley]

Welcome RR,

Why base such an ambitious project in the original Greek language upon such very recent (2005) writings? It would seem prudent to start with the earliest authentic documents available to avoid alterations.

[robinriley]

[Replying to post 296 by Zzyzx]

(Robin)
Thanks for the welcome, Zzyzx ...

Concerning your question, you might find Robinson and Peierpont's BT2005 interesting,
especially the Appendix, where Robinson presents his, "The Case for Byzantine Priority."

One has to have some standard baseline ... I, of course began this project long ago, and did begin with Westcott and Hord, Tisehendorf, and the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum, but found these a bit too selective (one man's opinion), I dabbled with switching to Michael Holms's "Greek New Testament SBL Edition," but eventually finding myself always thinking that the BT2005 choice of source text variations the ones I would have logically gone with ... not always, but surprisingly often, and like I indicated in my introductory, I'm purely self taught, so often dont' know or comprehend the why and wherefores behind some of these differences ...

Anyway, you did ask, so I'm going to send you the summary pages from the variations section, of what I call, "The Layman's Companion" ... attempting one's own translation,
even if it is just 13 epistles from Paul, is a very involved project. That is one doesn't just go at it word by word; but you also need to at least acknowledge each of these variations, build a comprehensive word list (including all the differnet parsings, declinations, and spellings); as well as a comprehensive verb list (so that I can then find where I've screwed the pooch with some parsings; by putting the verbs in each verb grouping together, you'd be surprised how many times and ways that you've mess up a verb).

Anyway, these summary pages (if they email with this) is rather revealing ... that is,
there really aren't that many (relatively speaking) differences between what you're calling the more earlier "authentic" documents, and what's in the BT2005 ... nor for that matter, is the GNTSBL all that different from the BT2005. and the differences, themselves, are for the most part rather not all that great a matter ... some are, of course, and usually I can understand why these are different, and find myself gioing with the logic of the BT2005 ... I've only found two or three instances (REALLY!!) where I had to go with the GNTSBL.

Anyway, look over my summary, and you'll see that crisis, spelling, and syntax (word and verse order) are not all that important a difference ...and these things account for a good percentage of the differences!

Hope this answers your questions, satisfies your curiosity,
Robin

****

The Layman’s Companion (TLC) is compiled from “The New Testament In The Original Greek - Byzantine Textform 2005,� (BT2005) by Maurice Robinson and William Pierpoint; with all differences noted (verses are asterisked) between it and Greek Critical Texts (*GCT), such as the “Greek New Testament SBL Edition,� (GNTSBL) by Michael Holmes (as compared against Westcott and Hort, Tisehendorf, and the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum). In these thirteen epistles of Paul there are 895 verses with variations (some with multiple variations); there are 519 Word Deletions, and these are the highest source of variation in every epistle. There are 232 Different Words variations; then 196 Syntax/ Verse Order/ Verse Breaks; then 172 Simple Spelling differences; then 137 Declensions; 109 Parsings; 104 Words Added; and 38 Crasis variations.

In Romans there are 163 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 118
Syntax/ Verse Order/ Verse Breaks = 41
Simple Spellings = 33
Different Words = 32
Declensions = 21
Parsings = 19
Word Additions = 18
Crasis = 3

In 1Corinthians there are 222 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 111
Different Words = 67
Syntax/ Verse Order = 58
Simple Spellings = 39
Parsings = 33
Word Additions = 29
Declensions = 25
Crasis = 9

In 2Corinthians there are 127 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 50
Different Words = 39
Simple Spellings = 22
Syntax/ Verse Order = 23
Parsings = 18
Declensions = 15
Word Additions = 14
Crasis = 14










In Galatians there are 61 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 30
Different Words = 22
Syntax/ Verse Order = 17
Simple Spellings = 11
Parsings = 7
Word Additions = 6
Declensions = 5
Crasis = 3

In Ephesians there are 72 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 52
Declensions = 20
Syntax/ Verse Order/ Verse Breaks = 15
Word Additions = 10
Parsing = 10
Simple Spellings = 10
Different Words = 7
Crasis = 2

In Philippians there are 40 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 22
Declensions = 12
Simple Spellings = 11
Different Words = 8
Syntax/ Verse Order/ Verse Breaks = 8
Word Additions = 6
Parsings = 3
Crasis = 1

In Colossians there are 50 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 35
Declensions = 19
Different Words = 16
Simple Spellings = 11
Word Additions = 4
Syntax/ Verse Order/Verse Breaks = 4
Crasis = 2
Parsing = 2









In 1Thessalonians there are 40 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 30
Word Additions = 10
Different Words = 8
Syntax/ Verse Order/ Verse Breaks = 6
Parsing = 5
Simple Spellings = 5
Crasis = 3
Declensions = 1

In 2Thessalonians there are 19 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 13
Different Words = 8
Declensions = 6
Parsing = 3
Word Additions = 2
Syntax/ Verse Order/ Vwese Breaks = 2
Simple Spellings = 2
Crasis = 1

In 1Timothy there are 40 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 30
Simple Spellings = 14
Different Words = 12
Syntax/ Verse Order = 5
Declensions = 3
Word Additions = 2
Parsings = 0
Crasis = 0

In Titus there are 17 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 7
Simple Spellings = 6
Syntax/ Verse Order = 4
Declensions = 3
Word Additions = 3
Different Words = 1
Parsings = 1
Crasis = 0









In Philemon there are 14 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 6
Syntax/ Verse Order/ Verse Breaks = 5
Different Words = 3
Declensions = 3
Simple Spellings = 2
Parsings = 1
Word Additions = 0
Crasis = 0

In 2Timothy there are 32 verses with variations (some with multiple variations).

Summary of variations:
Word Deletions = 15
Different Words = 9
Parsings = 7
Syntax /Verse Order = 7
Simple Spellings = 6
Declensions = 3
Word Additions = 1
Crasis = 0