The Only Solution to Humanity's Crisis : To the United Natio

[ivysunday]

The Only Solution to Humanity's Crisis : To the United Nations


Economic and Social Council
The United Nations


Dear Mr. Alberto Padova，

Our environment and climate continue to deteriorate and neither can be solved by the Kyoto Protocol or the Paris Agreement. The only way for us to save ourselves is to completely change our traditional modes of production and life.

If we continue to follow our current production and life modes, then these eight crises will remain unresolved:
1. Overpopulation
2. Humanity's greed and lust
3. Environmental Degradation
4. Climatic Deterioration
5. Loss and waste of Resources
6. Less stable Ecological Environments
7. Refugee Problems (they will continue to increase)
8. Conflicts between Nationalities, Religions, Cultures, and Interest Groups
These problems above can only be solved by changing our traditional production and life modes. Everyone yearns for a good life, but how can it be obtained?

It will not be by preaching morality, enforcing laws and regulations, following religious precepts, redistributing money and material assistance, constant meetings and discussions of governments or even the UN, warnings and threats, or even by force. It is only by changing our production and life modes that these crises can be solved.

What kind of production and life modes should be changed?
First of all, we should break up traditional marriages and families because they are the sources of human selfishness, the birthplaces of human crises, and the headstreams of all crime and evil. They are also the curb chains which prevent us all from leading happy, joyous, free, and blessed lives, but rather make people feel anxious, miserable, and fearful.

Our mode of production should change from a pattern of possessing to one of sharing; from one of competing predatorily to one of serving each other enthusiastically.

The rest of the contents involved are too broad to discuss here, but I can offer much more information based on my experience - if the UN is interested.


How do we change nearly everyone’s traditional production and life modes?
To implement that of the New Oasis for Life as created by the Lifechanyuan.

We have been experimenting with and improving upon this mode in mainland China for nine years, and the results have been very encouraging. More than two hundred people have participated in our experiment over the past ten years and one hundred and fifty of them have resided within the New Oasis for Life for extended periods of time. The remarkable signs of this mode are that exclusive marriages and families have disappeared, supporting our elderly and rearing and educating our children have been managed well, the crime rate has dropped to zero, our members’ health has improved greatly, pollution to our local environment has dropped to near zero, and our waste of resources and carbon footprint have been reduced greatly. Our people's happiness indices have risen higher than those in any of the developed countries in the world.

There are many more advantages over the traditional production and life modes which are difficult to describe here in detail but of which we have published many written descriptions, photographic proofs, and video displays, and we want the UN to understand them in detail. We can provide a great deal of information as evidence to study and judge.


If people do not change their traditional production and life modes completely and adopt these of the New Oasis for Life as created by Lifechanyuan, then the prospect of sustained development will remain distant and uncertain.

At this juncture between our continuation as a species and our extinction, we are hopeful that the UN will send people to study and demonstrate it as soon as possible and make it a project to be put into practice as has been done by Lifechanyuan. To bring about the new models of production and life modes sooner rather than later, let people from all over the world visit, study, and experience it. In this way, humanity’s situation can change completely and our futures will be blessed and sustainable.

It is impossible to change humanity’s dangerous predicament at once and even if the brakes were applied immediately, the inertia of traditional thinking would last for decades, by which time it would be too late.

So, the best way to do this would be to build new models of production and life modes which are intuitive, that people can see and experience in person, and that can be copied and replicated everywhere. If the New Oasis for Life mode were to be repeated by millions of people, then the beautiful ideal that mankind has dreamed of for thousands of years would surely be realized.


How do we build a model of this new production and life mode?
We would establish a New Oasis for Life in mainland China, in the United States of America, or in Zimbabwe, Africa with three hundred resident members including people from various religious, cultural, national, and ethnic backgrounds under the auspices of the United Nations and implemented by Lifechanyuan.

We encourage the United Nations to persuade one or more of those three governments to agree to allow us to create a New Oasis for Life on their territory and also to allow the foreign people involved in its creation to enter and leave freely.

The place where the New Oasis for Life would be created would be chosen and financed by Lifechanyuan and purchased or leased according to existing local policies. Of course it would help if the UN could help with the funding because if they were to do so, then it would be quicker and easier to build and the new model could unfold more quickly.

It would be effortless for the UN to help us to create this model of the new production and life modes, but the benefits would be endless and would benefit many future generations, so why not put it into practice?

It is better to teach people to catch fish than to give them some fish.

If the UN turns a blind eye to my proposal and ignores it, then you will have to deal with many types of devastation everywhere for many years to come.

We look forward to positive, encouraging news from your organization.

[ivysunday]

I am not bothering myself persuading others.

How silly is that? Didn't you start this thread with a letter you either sent to, or would like to send to the UN?

Why bother sending this letter if you aren't trying to persuade others.

My entire reply to you thread is to simply point out that your arguments are not persuasive. Also, if you aren't trying to persuade others why bother even replying to my rejection of your arguments?

Let's look at some of your "evidence" for a "Greatest Creator" that you linked to in your other thread: (I'll only address the ones you've number for clarity)

I am not trying to persuade people, because it is too hard to change anyone. But i am not saying that i cannot share my view even it may seems a waste of breath. Of cours it is not a wasting, because there are really people like us and resonate with us. I am trying to find them. As to you, I'd like to say, you are absolutly right, please do as you wish.

[Divine Insight]

As to you, I'd like to say, you are absolutly right, please do as you wish.

My point is simple.

We can address every single problem facing humanity without any need to pretend that there exists a "Greatest Creator". It's simply an unnecessary concept.

In fact, I hold that people who need to actually believe in a "Greatest Creator", or an afterlife in any form in order to do the right things for the betterment of humanity are already at a loss.

Why? Because if they can't see why these precise same solutions would be the right thing to do even without a "Greatest Creator" or a promise of an afterlife, then they are already lacking in a major way.

If you can't do the right thing in a secular world for humanity alone, then the existence of a "Greatest Creator" isn't going to somehow make you a better person.

If there exists a "Greatest Creator" (or God), then surely that God would appreciate secularists who naturally care about humanity far more than he or she would appreciate religious people who only care about humanity because they think there exists a "Greatest Creator" that they are attempting to impress.

Secularists who care about humanity have proven who they are without any need to believe in anything more than this life. Thesis who think they need to appease some "Greatest Creator" so he or she stops creating natural disasters is clearly acting out of fear and self-defense against what they imagine this "Greatest Creator" might do if they don't appease him or her.

You have already admitted that your "Greatest Creator" is choreographing natural disasters.

That's an ancient superstition that only serves to incite people to reject known science and truth. And it can never be good to get people to reject truth.

The truth will set you free. Not fantasy.

[ivysunday]

As to you, I'd like to say, you are absolutly right, please do as you wish.

My point is simple.

We can address every single problem facing humanity without any need to pretend that there exists a "Greatest Creator". It's simply an unnecessary concept.

In fact, I hold that people who need to actually believe in a "Greatest Creator", or an afterlife in any form in order to do the right things for the betterment of humanity are already at a loss.

Why? Because if they can't see why these precise same solutions would be the right thing to do even without a "Greatest Creator" or a promise of an afterlife, then they are already lacking in a major way.

If you can't do the right thing in a secular world for humanity alone, then the existence of a "Greatest Creator" isn't going to somehow make you a better person.

If there exists a "Greatest Creator" (or God), then surely that God would appreciate secularists who naturally care about humanity far more than he or she would appreciate religious people who only care about humanity because they think there exists a "Greatest Creator" that they are attempting to impress.

Secularists who care about humanity have proven who they are without any need to believe in anything more than this life. Thesis who think they need to appease some "Greatest Creator" so he or she stops creating natural disasters is clearly acting out of fear and self-defense against what they imagine this "Greatest Creator" might do if they don't appease him or her.

You have already admitted that your "Greatest Creator" is choreographing natural disasters.

That's an ancient superstition that only serves to incite people to reject known science and truth. And it can never be good to get people to reject truth.

The truth will set you free. Not fantasy.

Human beings need to coexist in harmony. The universe needs to exist in harmony. People and people, people and nature, people and society, people and gods should coexist in harmony. Atheists can not make all these coexist in harmony. We have only one way to go, that is, to follow the path of the Greatest Creator.
A family must have family law, so that all members of the family can live in harmony.
An enterprise should have rules and regulations so that all departments can cooperate with each other tacitly and coexist harmoniously.
A country must have its own laws in order to make all citizens live in harmony.

In the future, human beings will enter the Lifechanyuan Era, and the whole world will become a home. How can we make all ethnic groups live in harmony? How to eliminate conflicts and contradictions between human beings? How to eliminate the contradiction between human and nature? How to organically coordinate the production and activities of all human beings into an effective procedure? How to create a situation of "person of virtue won’t be abandoned away from government; honesty prevails throughout the world and no one pockets anything found on the road; doors unnecessarily to be shut in the evening for no thieves drop in", Everybody has work to do, house to live and food to eat; everybody is happy", "" nature pure and innocent, wind and rain coming on time"; " all living things flourish"? We can only accomplish these by establishing a universal moral value, which is to revere the Greatest Creator, life, nature and take the way of the Greatest Creator.

Correct morality must be universal, authoritative and objective.

How do atheists define morality?
"Morality, in the final analysis, is the sum of the good and evil, glory and shame, sense of justice and partiality, ideas, principles and norms that are determined by people's economic conditions. It relies on the power of public opinion, social customs and people's inner beliefs to ensure people's compliance with it. "--Editor-in-chief of Sun Guohua: Basic Theory of Law.
"Morality is the sum of people's concepts, principles and norms concerning good and evil, justice and injustice, glory and shame, justice and selfishness. In a class-antagonistic society, different classes have different morals, but the dominant morality is usually the morals of the ruling class, which belongs to the category of superstructure determined by the social and economic foundation. It adapts to the requirements of economic foundation, sets up moral models through public opinion, cultivates people's moral beliefs and transforms them into behaviors, thus serving the interests of the ruling class. "--Editor-in-chief of Shen Zongling: Basic Theory of Law
"Morality is a social norm, an objective norm of self-discipline or heteronomy. It is above ethics and under law. Tu Jianhua: Problems in Atheistic Moral Construction
"The so-called morality is determined by people's material living conditions. It evaluates the unity of ideas, principles and norms on the issues of good and evil, honor and shame, justice and injustice, justice and selfishness, honesty and hypocrisy. Morality relies on the power of public opinion, traditional customs and people's inner beliefs to ensure people's compliance with its norms.

Atheists have morality standards, but the morality atheists preached is immoral.
As long as you deny the existence of God, whether you are a moral expert, a scholar or a celebrity, whether you are rich or talented, the morality you are talking about is rootless wood, water without source, rust of metal, duckweed on the surface of ponds and lakes, white clouds floating in the blue sky, and castles without foundation.

Can the morality of atheists be universal? Can it be authoritative? Can it embody objectivity? If not, is your morality still called morality?
A person without faith can never have correct moral values. What is the basis of your morality? With passion and enthusiasm? With desire? With reason? In logic? With self-love and compassion? Country? Political parties? Class? Private or public ownership? With personal hobbies? With power? In terms of money? Status? With the sun and moon? With stone butterflies?

Atheist's morality, because it negates the existence of God, only scratches people's boots instead of scratching their feet and cannot touch their souls. It can only be a temporary, practical and subjective sermon, not a universal, authoritative and objective truth.

[Divine Insight]

Human beings need to coexist in harmony. The universe needs to exist in harmony. People and people, people and nature, people and society, people and gods should coexist in harmony. Atheists can not make all these coexist in harmony. We have only one way to go, that is, to follow the path of the Greatest Creator.

Apparently theists can't make people exist in harmony either. So theism most certainly has no leg up on atheism in that regard.

Atheists have morality standards, but the morality atheists preached is immoral.

There is no such thing as "Atheist morality". They may indeed be atheists who have various opinions on morality. And there may even be organized groups that use the label "atheists".

However, none of that would have anything at all to do with me or my arguments. I'm not arguing for "atheism". I'm simply pointing out that there is no need to introduce a concept of imaginary gods that you cannot show to exist. It's just unnecessary baggage.

As long as you deny the existence of God, whether you are a moral expert, a scholar or a celebrity, whether you are rich or talented, the morality you are talking about is rootless wood, water without source, rust of metal, duckweed on the surface of ponds and lakes, white clouds floating in the blue sky, and castles without foundation.

This is a totally false claim being made by you. Where you can point to any morality that supposedly came from any God?

You can't. All you can do is point to arrogant humans who claim that their favorite religious views represent the moral values of a supposed God. A God that they cannot even show exists.

Also, I hope you wouldn't be so silly to point to the Hebrew Bible as a description of the morality of a God. That theology has extremely horrible moral principles.

Can the morality of atheists be universal? Can it be authoritative? Can it embody objectivity? If not, is your morality still called morality?[

Sure it can still be called morality. Morality is a man-made concept. Just because we invented the concept and define it doesn't mean that we can't name it.

A person without faith can never have correct moral values. What is the basis of your morality?

What is the basis of your morality?

Can you point to a moral system that came from some God?

I'm quite certain that you can't. Therefore any religion you point to that you claim represents the moral values of a God is nothing more than your own personal choice of moral values to support.

With passion and enthusiasm? With desire? With reason? In logic? With self-love and compassion? Country? Political parties? Class? Private or public ownership? With personal hobbies? With power? In terms of money? Status? With the sun and moon? With stone butterflies?

As humans we decide what we consider to be right or wrong (which is all that morality amounts to). Moreover, we don't need to assign a moral value to every possible action. Everything does not need to be classified as being either right or wrong. So there is no need for any "absolute morality".

Some things that you may consider to be "wrong" someone else may not consider to be wrong. That's not a problem really. You can simply refrain from doing whatever it is that you think is wrong, and they can do what they think is right. Unless they are harming you or others, then no harm is done.

Atheist's morality, because it negates the existence of God, only scratches people's boots instead of scratching their feet and cannot touch their souls. It can only be a temporary, practical and subjective sermon, not a universal, authoritative and objective truth.

But you cannot point to a verifiable source of moral conduct that can be attributed to any God. So you can't do any better.

You can't even show that your ill-defined "Greatest Creator" exists.

Let's not forget that you have already defined your "Greatest Creator" as choreographic natural disasters. So you already have a "Greatest Creator" that cannot be said to even have any moral values worthy of consideration. Your "Greatest Creator" has already been shown to be the "Greatest Murderer" by your own proclamation.

If we allow that not harming others is the "Greatest Morality" then I have far higher moral values than your "Greatest Creator" already because I don't go around harming hundreds or thousands of innocent people by causing natural disasters.

By the way, are you familiar with Wicca? It's a religion of a Goddess where there is only one rule. "Do as you will, but harm none".

So there you go. A very simple rule that even secularists can argue follows from pure logic if we simply define "wrong" as harming others.

Therefore there isn't even any need for the Goddess of Wicca. All we need to do is define harming others as being "wrong" and we're done. We have taken care of all possible moral scenarios.

After all, if an action isn't harming anyone then how can it be said to be immoral?

So there you go. Pure Secular Logic is all that is required to define absolute morality. Simply define "wrong" as harming others and you're done.

And if you take this to the ultimate logical conclusion then harming the planet, or the environment, would also end up harming others, so that's already covered by default.

So there you go. I've just pointed you to the ultimate reality define by a purely secular worldview.

And you have yet to point to any moral codes that came from any God that you can show actually exists.

So the secularists are way ahead of you on the subject of morality.

You can't do any better, even if you could find a God to point to. Even a God couldn't do any better.

"Do as you will, but harm none".

That's all you need and you're done.

You can either pretend to have gotten this from a Moon Goddess, or you can simply recognize that it follows from pure secular logic with the need for any gods. Your choice.

[ivysunday]

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?

Are you a Atheist? Why you want to deny the existence of the Greatest Creater. What does "Divide" mean? If you deny the Greatest Creater, you shouldn't use this word or you are not representing yourself.

The basis of my morality is the way of the Greatest Creator which you do not believe at all. All is but a game, I feel arguing is not fun. So again I admit you are right, please just do what you think is right. I'd like to live a simple and easy life.

[Divine Insight]

Are you a Atheist?

I don't go by labels. I'm a human being living on planet earth. Any labels you place on me after that are superficial semantics.

Why you want to deny the existence of the Greatest Creater. What does "Divide" mean? If you deny the Greatest Creater, you shouldn't use this word or you are not representing yourself.

Insofar as I am aware there is no credible evidence for the existence of a so-called "Greatest Creator". So there is nothing to deny concerning this concept.

Let's not forget that your portrait of an imagined "Greatest Creator" includes being a "Greatest Murderer" of innocent humans, including women, children, and even newborn babies. You claim that all natural disasters are "choreographed" by this demonic entity. So your so-called "Greatest Creator" is necessarily an immoral demon anyway, by your own definitions.

The basis of my morality is the way of the Greatest Creator which you do not believe at all.

So you condone killing innocent women, children and newborn babies via violent attacks on them with large waves of water as used by your "Greatest Creator" in his creation of tsunamis?

You condone killing innocent women, children and newborn babies via violent attacks on them by mountains exploding and spewing hot molten lava everywhere?

You condone killing innocent women, children and newborn babies via violent attacks on them by extreme hurricanes and typhoons?

You condone killing innocent women, children and newborn babies via violent attacks on them by raging forest fires with high winds?

You condone killing innocent women, children and newborn babies via violent attacks on them via biological warfare using deadly bacteria, viruses and other horrific diseases?

I don't see where your "Greatest Creator" represents any meaningful morality.

All is but a game, I feel arguing is not fun. So again I admit you are right, please just do what you think is right. I'd like to live a simple and easy life.

I enjoy living a simple and easy life myself.

I simply pointed out to you that your approach to trying to convince the UN to become religious fanatics isn't even remotely reasonable. There simply is no need to believe in an imaginary "Greatest Creator" that you can't even demonstrate exists.

Let's look at the problems that concern you again from the OP:



1. Overpopulation


Most religions are pro-life and even reject the notion of birth control.

So believing in a "Greatest Creator" isn't likely to stop people from overpopulating the planet. To the contrary, many of them believe that their God told them to multiply. And there is nothing in their religious dogmas that suggest they need to worry about any possibility of overpopulating the planet. In fact most religious dogmas don't even say anything about the potential limited resources of the planet on which we live.

So religion isn't going to help with the problem of overpopulation.

By the way, I agree that overpopulation is indeed a problem. I chose to not have any offspring to add to that problem.

Did you contribute your part by not having any children?



2. Humanity's greed and lust


Religion hasn't been able to address these problems since it was first invented. To the contrary it often contributes to these problems actually. Many religious fanatics are so greedy that they want to push to have their favorite religion become the religious ideology of the world.

That is a form of greed too. Are you aware of that?


3. Environmental Degradation


There is no warning of pollution in most religious dogmas. Jesus himself was not concerned with the natural environment. He cursed a fig tree to wither and die simply because it didn't please him. If we go by his example we could easily end up destroying all of nature simply because it doesn't please us.

Besides, even secular humanists are often also passionate environmentalists. So that's obviously a secular concern as well. Again, no need to believe in any imagined "Greatest Creator" to be concerned with the environment.

If it could be shown that there is no "Greatest Creator" would you then think that it would be ok to pollute the environment where you live?

Clearly you shouldn't need to believe in an imagined "Greatest Creator" to be concerned with the health of your environment?

That's just a totally unnecessary concept.


4. Climatic Deterioration


But you claim that climate is being "Choreographed" by your "Greatest Creator". So why should humans try to control the climate when that's the job of the "Greatest Creator"?

If you want humans to take control of the earth's climate you shouldnh't be trying to convince them that some invisible man in the sky is the choreographer of natural events including the weather.


5. Loss and waste of Resources


Again, most religious dogmas make no claim that their "Greatest Creator" did not provide humans with sufficient resources. In fact, to even suggest such a thing would be to imply that the "Greatest Creator" was not capable of planning very far ahead when he created the earth.

So once again, convincing people of a secular worldview would be far more likely to produce the desired results here. Once they realized that we need to take care of our own planet and there is no man in the sky who will do it for them they will be more inclined to take action.

So religion is the enemy of this particular problem.


6. Less stable Ecological Environments


That's just #3 being repeated. Again secularism is the way to go to solve this problem.


7. Refugee Problems (they will continue to increase)


Many refugee problems are actually being created by people leaving areas where differences in religious beliefs are the cause of the violence.

So again, if everyone was a secularist at least everyone would be in the same page.


8. Conflicts between Nationalities, Religions, Cultures, and Interest Groups


And many of those are caused by differences in religious beliefs.

Religion hasn't solved those problems for millennia and there's no reason to think that it would start to solve them today.

In fact, differences in religious beliefs has been the cause of must cultural conflicts and wars.

So why you think that your religious view could somehow save humanity from these problems is beyond me.

If everyone thinks and acts like I do we wouldn't have any of these problems. And yet I have no reason to believe in any concept of a "Greatest Creator'. So clearly a secular worldview is all that is required.

I have already given my contribution to the overpopulation problem by choosing to not procreate. Have you?

If you've had children then you have no business complaining about overpopulation.

[ivysunday]

[Replying to post 16 by Divine Insight]

Human are the cause of all disasters and disorders, the Greatest Creator just remind us of the possible consequences.
You think without the Greatest Creator, you can figure out all of these. What is the current situation of the earth now?

---------------------
Three Magic Weapons for A Carefree Life

Xuefeng
(Translated by Xidai and Edited by Kaer)


When we are born on earth, it is inevitable that we will develop many worries. Some of these worries will be for food, clothing, shelter, transportation, birth, aging, illness, and death, the worry about how to make our lives run smoothly and have wonderful futures, the worry about how to keep relatives and friends successful and safe, and the worry about how to fully enjoy love and sexual intimacy. Because of these worries, some of us will begin to walk on the way of the Greatest Creator in Lifechanyuan, although many of us might have little confidence in their futures and endure fear in their hearts.

Therefore, I will show you three magic weapons to help you achieve a carefree life. These weapons will strengthen your faith and overcome your difficulties, “help you cross your mountains and swamps�, in order to arrive successfully in Heaven. The first magic weapon is having firm faith in the Greatest Creator.

“For since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.� ~ Romans 1: 20

We are created by the Greatest Creator, but how do we know this? I will present you with three examples: Every woman has breasts, but they do not provide milk until she gives birth. What does this example show? It shows that the Greatest Creator has designed this program and He is looking after the new-born babies. Look at the hairs of our eyebrows, eyelashes, and armpits. Most of our hair can grow to unlimited lengths, but not those of our eyebrows, eyelashes, and armpits. Why? Why are our eyebrows arched and the eyelashes grown on the upper and lower edges of the eyelids? Why are the armpit hairs very soft? When figuring these questions out, we will know that the Greatest Creator has taken good care of us. Upon reaching the age of puberty, we will develop special feelings of attachment with members of the opposite sex, and when kissing and fondling, women’s vaginas will become moist and prepare for love-making. If their vaginas remained dry, they would not be able to enjoy the pleasure of sexual love. This program is very complex, so what can we learn from it? We shall learn that sexual love is a precious gift bestowed by the Greatest Creator to human beings and it fills our lives with infinite fascination and beauty.

It is only when we become good at reading and understanding the book without words of nature that we will learn how well the Greatest Creator has taken care of human beings in every way and form, so we will know that we have been created by the Greatest Creator and that the Greatest Creator is surely looking after us. It is only by living in accordance with what the Greatest Creator has designed for us that we will have no worries about our futures and definitely have a carefree life.

The second magic weapon is believing in Karma.

“Reap what you have sown�, “Those who do good are rewarded and those who do wrong are punished. Good and evil will have their karmic retribution when their time comes. And when the time arrives, one will get all the rewards they deserve�, “Disasters and blessings have no entry gates of their own; they are summoned by people. The effects of good and evil are like shadows following their forms.� “Therefore, a joyous man speaks what is good, thinks what is good, and does what is good; each day he does these three things, and in three years, heaven will bequeath to him good fortune, but an unlucky man is he who speaks what is evil, thinks what is evil, and does what is evil; each day he does these three things, and in three years, heaven will strike him with misfortune.� “The cause and effect are perfectly matching. The mill of the Greatest Creator grinds slow but sure.� “If you want to know your past, look into your present conditions. If you want to know your future, look into your present actions.�

We need to believe in karma. When we believe in karma, we will no longer complain to heaven, earth, individuals, or society, and accept all the twists and turns in our lives quietly and peacefully. What is more is that when we understand the law of causality, we will have no worries that we will surely have beautiful pictures of life in the future as we pursue sincerity, kindness, beauty, love, faith, and honesty. We will have no worries that everything will treat us nicely when we treat them nicely and do no harm to nature, any living beings, any person, or to society.

The third magic weapon is putting our best into everything that we do.

“Submit to the will of Heaven, do what one can�, just put out our best efforts into whatever we do on each day, treat relatives, friends, society, and nature with love from our hearts, and do our best in daily life. By doing so, we will have no regrets in our lives. As to whether our dreams come true or not, do not feel attached to the results but let the Greatest Creator arrange all. “Using a saw pulled by a rope, in time, any block of wood, no matter how thick, can be sawed through, just as drops of water will wear away a stone. In the same way, those who cultivate Tao must constantly exert themselves in their explorations. Water flows naturally into channels, and the gourd, when it ripens, sheds its stalk naturally. Thus, the person who wishes to master Tao has only to persevere in self-cultivation, and they will eventually become accomplished.� We will have no worries only if we do our best in everything.

Having firm faith in the Greatest Creator, believing in karma, and giving our best in all that we do are three magic weapons to bring you a carefree life. If you have the three magic weapons, your life will be like, “let the wind blow and the waves beat, better far than idly strolling in the courtyard.� You will no longer have worries about food, clothing, shelter, transportation, birth, aging, illness, or death. You will have a very bright future and a carefree life. If you can keep this state in your lifetime, you will arrive in Heaven when leaving the earth.

[Divine Insight]

Human are the cause of all disasters and disorders, the Greatest Creator just remind us of the possible consequences.

What you just stated here is demonstrably false. Humans are not the cause of earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, droughts, etc.

Humans are also not the cause of disease and genetic defects, although they can be the cause of spreading disease.

It's a religious superstition to say that humans are the cause of all disasters and disorders. A provably false superstition. You are spreading these false superstitions by preaching your religious views and stating them as though they represent facts, when in truth they are clearly false.

Why spread falsehoods in an attempt to proselytize religious dogmas? Spreading falsehoods does no one any good.

You think without the Greatest Creator, you can figure out all of these. What is the current situation of the earth now?

Absolutely. In fact I already know what the solutions are, and science has been telling us how to solve these problems for many decades as well. It's not that I don't have solutions. The problem is trying to get the masses to recognize these solutions and act on them.

Like I say, I agree that overpopulation is a problem. And so does science. However, try to get the masses to quit having so many babies. That's a whole different problem. I don't have the solution on how to get the masses to stop procreating to such an extreme degree, but then neither has religion. In fact, most of the people who overpopulate the world already are religious.

So religions clearly don't have any solutions either. In fact, all you can say is that "If everyone would do as you preach this would solve humanities problems".

But I can say exactly the same thing without any need to claim the existence of any "Greatest Creator"

In fact, if there actually was a "Greatest Creator" why would that creator have created humans who are so unwilling to address these problems? Clearly if humans are this stupid no one can be blamed for that but their creator. After all, stupid humans cannot be held responsible for being stupid. So if humans were created by a "Greatest Creator" only the creator can be held responsible for the stupidity of the masses of humans.

Apparently you are extremely displeased with that your "Greatest Creator" has supposedly created. Your beef should be with the "Greatest Creator" not with the defective objects of his creation. It simply cannot be their fault that they were created to be so defective.

--------------------
Three Magic Weapons for A Carefree Life

Xuefeng
(Translated by Xidai and Edited by Kaer)


When we are born on earth, it is inevitable that we will develop many worries. Some of these worries will be for food, clothing, shelter, transportation, birth, aging, illness, and death, the worry about how to make our lives run smoothly and have wonderful futures, the worry about how to keep relatives and friends successful and safe, and the worry about how to fully enjoy love and sexual intimacy. Because of these worries, some of us will begin to walk on the way of the Greatest Creator in Lifechanyuan, although many of us might have little confidence in their futures and endure fear in their hearts.[/quote]

I don't personally worry about anything. I have no family (let's not forget that I have already contributed to the overpopulation problem by my own free will choice not to produce more humans on this planet). Therefore I certainly have no need to worry about the future of my children. I saw the overpopulation problem way back in the late 1950's even before I had become a teenager. I vowed way back then not to bring any more humans onto this planet. So I was a very earlier activist and contributor to these global problems.

Therefore, I will show you three magic weapons to help you achieve a carefree life. These weapons will strengthen your faith and overcome your difficulties, “help you cross your mountains and swamps�, in order to arrive successfully in Heaven. The first magic weapon is having firm faith in the Greatest Creator.

On a personal level I already have a carefree life. So you're barking up the wrong tree here.

“For since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.� ~ Romans 1: 20

Sorry, but Mr. Paul was simply wrong. For one thing he was attempting to apply this to his specific religious dogma. However, even if he was right about the need for a creator God it wouldn't follow that his dogma was true anymore than it would follow that Greek theology was true.

So Paul's argument doesn't hold up for his specific religious dogma anyway. And that even assumes that his guess that a creator God is required to produce the world in which we live. But that actually faulty logic that is non-sequitur. You can explain an apparent "design" by postulating that that some "already highly-designed God" first must need to exist. That's ridiculous. What would then be Paul's explanation for how his God came to be? Clearly this is grossly flawed reasoning.

So quoting some ancient theist's personal views from some 2000 years ago is hardly impressive. He obviously had no clue what he was talking about.

We are created by the Greatest Creator, but how do we know this? I will present you with three examples:

Ok, let's take a look at your three examples.

Example #1

Every woman has breasts, but they do not provide milk until she gives birth. What does this example show? It shows that the Greatest Creator has designed this program and He is looking after the new-born babies.

Evolution explains why parent species are able to raise their young. It simply has to be this way otherwise they would die off and not continue to procreate. So there is no need to imagine some Greatest Creator designing a process that would necessarily occur naturally as explained by natural evolution.

So there is no need to invoke a designer when no design is required.

Example #2

Look at the hairs of our eyebrows, eyelashes, and armpits. Most of our hair can grow to unlimited lengths, but not those of our eyebrows, eyelashes, and armpits. Why? Why are our eyebrows arched and the eyelashes grown on the upper and lower edges of the eyelids? Why are the armpit hairs very soft? When figuring these questions out, we will know that the Greatest Creator has taken good care of us

.

And again. Evolution explains why things are the way they are. So there is no need to invoke a designer when no design is required. You're looking at the finished product thinking that this was the intend of a previous design. But that's not how it works. So naturally you are going to think that a designer must be required. But evolution shows that no designer is required.

Example #3

Upon reaching the age of puberty, we will develop special feelings of attachment with members of the opposite sex, and when kissing and fondling, women’s vaginas will become moist and prepare for love-making. If their vaginas remained dry, they would not be able to enjoy the pleasure of sexual love. This program is very complex, so what can we learn from it? We shall learn that sexual love is a precious gift bestowed by the Greatest Creator to human beings and it fills our lives with infinite fascination and beauty.

Oh please. It is a well-known fact that many women have many problems and discomforts during sex and during childbirth. In fact, many women have died while giving birth. Today, with our modern secular medical techniques we are able to save many women from unnecessary pain, or serious injury by using C-section as a means of allowing birth to avoid the extreme hazards associated with the natural birth methods.

So your "Greatest Creator" would have flunked as a designer in this regard. At least evolution explains why things aren't perfect (as you seem to think that your Greatest Creator had supposedly designed them to be)

Let's face it. Even your arguments for a "Greatest Creator" aren't holding up.

It is only when we become good at reading and understanding the book without words of nature that we will learn how well the Greatest Creator has taken care of human beings in every way and form, so we will know that we have been created by the Greatest Creator and that the Greatest Creator is surely looking after us. It is only by living in accordance with what the Greatest Creator has designed for us that we will have no worries about our futures and definitely have a carefree life.

Oh please. Even the most devout believers of a "Greatest Creator" have suffered from the pain and agony of human imperfections, diseases, genetic defects, and problems with fertility and childbirth.

So believing in a "Greatest Creator" has been proven to do nothing to solve the poor design of human beings.

The second magic weapon is believing in Karma.

“Reap what you have sown�, “Those who do good are rewarded and those who do wrong are punished.

Actually Karma has nothing to do with "right or wrong". There is no guarantee that people who do the right things will be rewarded and people who do wrong things will be punished.

Karma, in this life, is really nothing more than cause and effect. It does hold true in many situations, but it's also no guarantee of how things might actually proceed.

Good and evil will have their karmic retribution when their time comes. And when the time arrives, one will get all the rewards they deserve�, “Disasters and blessings have no entry gates of their own; they are summoned by people. The effects of good and evil are like shadows following their forms.� “Therefore, a joyous man speaks what is good, thinks what is good, and does what is good; each day he does these three things, and in three years, heaven will bequeath to him good fortune, but an unlucky man is he who speaks what is evil, thinks what is evil, and does what is evil; each day he does these three things, and in three years, heaven will strike him with misfortune.� “The cause and effect are perfectly matching. The mill of the Greatest Creator grinds slow but sure.� “If you want to know your past, look into your present conditions. If you want to know your future, look into your present actions.�

Again, in this life, all you are talking about is cause and effect, a totally secular concept that requires no "Greatest Creator". Also, you are wrong if you think that good always causes good and evil always causes evil. Cause and effect work to a large degree, but concepts of "Good and Evil" are human judgements that are totally subjective in their nature. So whether you label something as being "good" or "evil" is really a matter of personal opinion.

We need to believe in karma. When we believe in karma, we will no longer complain to heaven, earth, individuals, or society, and accept all the twists and turns in our lives quietly and peacefully. What is more is that when we understand the law of causality, we will have no worries that we will surely have beautiful pictures of life in the future as we pursue sincerity, kindness, beauty, love, faith, and honesty. We will have no worries that everything will treat us nicely when we treat them nicely and do no harm to nature, any living beings, any person, or to society.

It would not only be silly, but it would be quite arrogant to think that our own actions are the sole cause of how the rest of the world interacts with us. In fact, the idealized philosophical concept of "Karma" that you are preaching here is provably false.

We have many examples of people who were totally dedicated to doing good in this world but in the process of taking on their missions of goodness they were robbed, raped, or murdered for apparently no reason. Even though they were in the middle of a mission of trying to help and love their fellow humans.

So I hate to burst your bubble about Karma, but it's provably false in the absolute sense in which you are attempting to preach it as a religious concept. Doing good things and having the best of intentions is no guarantee that you will not be harmed in the process.

In fact, just look at how many rescue workers have been killed trying to save people from fires and those nasty natural disasters that your "Greatest Murderer" unleashes on innocent people.

Doing good things is no guarantee that only good things will happen to you.

So the things you are preaching are provably false.

There can be no doubt at all that what you are claiming is simply not true. Period.

The third magic weapon is putting our best into everything that we do.
{snip}
We will have no worries only if we do our best in everything.

Doing the best we can is great secular advice. Being constructive and productive has the greatest probability of producing constructive and productive results. This is true. However, even when we do this there is no guarantee that nothing will go wrong. So again. While the advice is good even from a secular worldview it's not going to eliminate potential disasters. In fact, do I need to remind you that well-meaning people who have done their very best at trying to achieve a goal have ultimately met with great disaster?

Not too long ago an Amish family near where I live had build up a brand new farm house. They had five children. Shortly after they had finished building the house the house caught fire (unfortunately they were using kerosene lamps which was the cause of the fire). The first occurred in the middle of the night. The father was not at home. The mother and the five children all died in the fire. The father was of course devastated.

They did their "best" but apparently their "best" wasn't good enough for your "Greatest Creator". And keep in mind that the Amish most certainly believed in the "Greatest Creator".

Not only this, but since you want to give your "Greatest Creator" credit for choreographing everything, then once again your "Greatest Creator" becomes the "Greatest Murderer".

Why didn't your "Greatest Creator" prevent this disaster?

If he couldn't prevent it, then why call him "Great"?
If he didn't prevent it but could have, then why claim that he's benevolent or loving?

There's something drastically wrong with your theological picture here.

Having firm faith in the Greatest Creator, believing in karma, and giving our best in all that we do are three magic weapons to bring you a carefree life.

I already have a carefree life.

Why?

Because I have no expectations and I'm prepared to accept whatever life brings. That's how to have a carefree life. Not by hoping that some invisible "Greatest Creator" will cause things to turn out as I had expected.

That's how you live a carefree life. Simply have no expectations and then you won't need to worry that things may not turn out as you had expected.

[ivysunday]

[Replying to post 18 by Divine Insight]

You mean the earth is in harmony and peace? There is no war and famine? If your answer is no, please tell me who is causing all these?

Ok let's stop here and use your way to bring peace to the world. The world will become better and better from the situation now.

[Divine Insight]

You mean the earth is in harmony and peace? There is no war and famine?

I never said the world is in harmony or at peace. Or that there is no war of famine.

To the contrary I hold to the following:

If there is no intentional designing creator of the world, then the world is simply in a state that naturally occurs. That should be obvious.

On the other hand, if there is an intentional designing creator of the world, then the world is precisely as the intentional designing creator had created it to be. How else could it be?

So as far as I can see a non-intentional natural cause appears to make more sense. After all if there is an intentional designing creator that creator would necessarily need to be malevolent to have intentionally designed our current situation.

If your answer is no, please tell me who is causing all these?

Well, to begin with we can quickly eliminate humans as the cause of the discord of the world in which we live.

If humans were removed from the earth what would be left? Plants and animals right?

So what do plants and animals do? They eat each other. And yes some plants actually eat animals (i.e. the Venus Fly Trap, etc). Animals would continue to brutally and violently prey on each other. So violence and bloodshed would continue without any humans around at all.

Disease and natural disasters would continue to plague the animal world as well.

Nature can be, and is, quite brutal and uncaring. Of course if there is no conscious sentience behind "Nature" then there is no sentient being to blame.

On the other hand if a "Greatest Creator" is behind the creation of this world, then he was clearly a very violent and malevolent creator long before he even bothered to create humans.

So we can establish two things here:

1. Humans cannot be blamed for the brutal nature of life.
2. If there is an intentional "Greatest Creator" then that creator is necessarily brutal and malevolent in his design.

Ok let's stop here and use your way to bring peace to the world. The world will become better and better from the situation now.

Well, the first thing we need to do is to get humans to stop proclaiming that some imaginary "Greatest Creator" will solve all our problems for us if we simply believe that he exists. That's clearly not going to solve anything.

Getting people to give up on these ancient archaic superstitions is extremely difficult, I will grant you this. Look at yourself. Even you continue to believe that this imaginary "Greatest Creator" is choreographing natural disasters even after secular science has demonstrated the natural causes of these events.

How can you continue to believe in the superstition that some invisible "Greatest Creator" is doing malevolent things, when secular science has already shown these events to be easily explained by natural physics?

You continue to believe in something that has no credible evidence to back it up while simultaneously rejecting explanations that have been proven to be true.

I'm just not sure what it would take to convince you to accept known truths over ancient superstitions.

Perhaps that's not even possible. Could it be that nature has formed within you a brain that simply does not have the capability of discerning demonstrable truth from ancient archaic superstition? I feel a need to ask this because the truths I've been stating are demonstrably true. Period. It's not like I'm just spewing personal superstitious opinions that have no foundation in reality.

As far as solving the problems of humanity, I have no clue how to get other people to behave decently. As I have just pointed out, I can't even get you to accept verified facts over clearly false ancient superstitious that have no basis in reality.

What I can say is that if everyone behaved like me there would be no problems in this world caused by humans. Obviously there would still be the threats from the animal kingdom, disease, genetic defects, and natural disasters. I can't make those things go away. Although secular science has made great progress in preventing and curing many diseases as well as in predicting many natural disasters. I strongly support that continued effort.

If everyone were to behave like me there would be none of the following:

1. theft
2. murder
3. rape
4. infidelity in relationships
5. greed
6. a desire for fame, riches, or power.
7. gambling
8. pornography
9. child abuse
10. religion bigotry, *in fact there wouldn't be any religions to argue over (see note below)

*note: I'm actually not again spiritual views. I personally worship an imaginary "Greatest Creator" myself via a tradition known as "Solitary Eclectic Wicca". However, there is nothing to argue about here. I'm not claiming that it's a true religion. I'm not telling other people that they must believe in it. And I'm certainly not trying to sell it as the solution to the world's problems.

If you want to believe in a "Greatest Creator", by all means do so. But when you start proclaiming that your belief in this creator could solve all the world's problems if everyone would simply believe like you, then you have just created a serious social problem already.

~~~~~~

I could continue on with my list of what people would be like if they would simply behave like I so. Keep in mind that when I saw that overpopulation was a problem I was more than willing to not take part in procreation of humans. So even overpopulation would not be a problem if everyone were like me.

We certainly wouldn't have corporate greed and politicians who have their own personal agendas instead of serving the public's best interest like they are supposed to do.

Do I have a way to get everyone to behave like me? No I don't. But just because I can't get people to behave themselves doesn't mean that there must be a "Greatest Creator" who ALSO cannot get people to behave themselves.

If you think about it, all you are really doing is complaining that you don't like the world that your imagined "Greatest Creator" had supposedly created.

If this world was created by a "Greatest Creator" then this world must be exactly as this "Greatest Creator" had intended it to be. Otherwise why bother calling him the "Greatest Creator"?

It makes no sense to claim that a so-called "Greatest Creator" created a world that isn't so "Great".

That's an oxymoron right there if there ever was one.