Is there ANY empirical extra-Biblical evidence for....

[notachance]

Is there ANY empirical extra-Biblical evidence for supernatural claims in the Bible?

For example: Is there a study out there that shows that Christians get his by lightning less frequently than non-Christians in that same region? Is there a study that shows that those who pray to Jesus survive cancer more frequently than those who pray to Allah (given equal access to healthcare)? Has anybody who had an out-of body experience and "flew to a different room" ever been able to tell what the people in that other room were saying, and was that testimony corroborated?

Does the truth of the Biblical supernatural claims manifest themselves in ANY measurable observable way? Or is it limited exclusively to manifesting itself inside the edited copy of the edited copy of the edited copy of the edited copy of the edited copy of scribbles anonymous bronze and iron age barbarians wrote on sheep skin after having heard stories from people who heard stories from people who heard stories from people who saw stuff that was allegedly supernatural, at a time in history when a solar eclipse, an earthquake and a flood were considered supernatural?

If somebody said "You're extraordinarily naive for believing that donkeys can talk"

Would your response be something like this

It's not naive to believe in the talking donkey tale, because it's not just the copy of the copy of the copy etc of a story a bronze age barbarian once told, but there is this empirical evidence to back up the belief in talking donkeys:

Empirical evidence 1:______________________

Empirical evidence 2: ______________________

Empirical evidence 3: ______________________

Or would it be something like this

"I don't understand how the universe came into existence, therefore I believe that a super powerful entity caused it to come into existence. This entity (that I have no evidence for) has enormous powers (that I have no evidence for), and he can use these powers to cause a donkey to talk, therefore while it's physically impossible for a donkey to talk, it's not physically impossible for a donkey to talk. Consider how unlikely it is that of all the trillions of types of molecules a fart could contain, it contains methane. If God can cause methane to be inside a fart, then surely he can cause a donkey to talk!"

[Wootah]

I've provided empirical evidence on other threads, you just don't accept it as evidence. This was the whole point of my earlier challenge. If you want to say there's no 'evidence' when I present arguments like that of the Ozone layer or the Solar formation with Entropy, then that's why I say there should be a requirement for the denier to state why with evidence against what has been said. I will address the Daniel fragments now.

First, the "empirical" evidence you've provided, even if it were true, and not just huge arguments from ignorance of basic physics - copied and pasted from shady apologist websites, would NOT prove that the God of the Bible is real, but just that some generic creator exists. It could be yahweh, it could be Allah, it could be the Spaghetti monster.

Secondly, it MUST be addressed that there is a reason that everybody laughs at your solar system theories. THEY ARE ABSURD!

Can we agree that there are at least 100,000 people with a PhD in Astrophysics?

Can you name 10 among them who disagree with the notion that the formation of solar systems are COMPLETELY CONGRUOUS with our understanding of thermodynamics and entropy? Can you name 10?

If you can, then 0.01% of qualified professionals agree with you, and 99.99 don't.

Find me 50,000 astrophysicist who agree with you, and then we're having a conversation. But as it stands I have the entirety of the scientific community on one side of a scientific debate, and Shermana on the other.

As it stands, I presented a falsifiable test and demonstrated why that prayer study is wrong, and I presented a better model to follow. Maybe I can get one done in Israel one day and tests can be made if commandment-followers have better recoveries.

Sure, get a study going and then we're talking. Until then your BASELESS assertion that the studies in existence are wrong just because you don't like the results, is absolutely irrelevant.

I look forward to you putting forward some tangible empirical evidence that doesn't qualify as such only inside your head, but the validity of which is accepted by at least 0.0001% of experts of the field in question.

Of course you realise that you are basically siding with everyone in the past that said the world was flat or whatever was current at the time and then shown wrong.

[notachance]

I've provided empirical evidence on other threads, you just don't accept it as evidence. This was the whole point of my earlier challenge. If you want to say there's no 'evidence' when I present arguments like that of the Ozone layer or the Solar formation with Entropy, then that's why I say there should be a requirement for the denier to state why with evidence against what has been said. I will address the Daniel fragments now.

First, the "empirical" evidence you've provided, even if it were true, and not just huge arguments from ignorance of basic physics - copied and pasted from shady apologist websites, would NOT prove that the God of the Bible is real, but just that some generic creator exists. It could be yahweh, it could be Allah, it could be the Spaghetti monster.

Secondly, it MUST be addressed that there is a reason that everybody laughs at your solar system theories. THEY ARE ABSURD!

Can we agree that there are at least 100,000 people with a PhD in Astrophysics?

Can you name 10 among them who disagree with the notion that the formation of solar systems are COMPLETELY CONGRUOUS with our understanding of thermodynamics and entropy? Can you name 10?

If you can, then 0.01% of qualified professionals agree with you, and 99.99 don't.

Find me 50,000 astrophysicist who agree with you, and then we're having a conversation. But as it stands I have the entirety of the scientific community on one side of a scientific debate, and Shermana on the other.

As it stands, I presented a falsifiable test and demonstrated why that prayer study is wrong, and I presented a better model to follow. Maybe I can get one done in Israel one day and tests can be made if commandment-followers have better recoveries.

Sure, get a study going and then we're talking. Until then your BASELESS assertion that the studies in existence are wrong just because you don't like the results, is absolutely irrelevant.

I look forward to you putting forward some tangible empirical evidence that doesn't qualify as such only inside your head, but the validity of which is accepted by at least 0.0001% of experts of the field in question.

Of course you realise that you are basically siding with everyone in the past that said the world was flat or whatever was current at the time and then shown wrong.

So what? Does the fact that people thought the earth was flat but were wrong, prove that our understanding of the thermodynamics of solar system formation is wrong?

It does not. If anything, the fact that we have been wrong in the past, proves that the POTENTIAL TO BE WRONG AGAIN exists.

That should NOT encourage us to randomly discard our entire understanding of thermodynamics because shermana is desperately trying to justify his belief in a bronze age fairy tale!

The fact that we have been wrong before, about the shape of the planet and many other things, should encourage us to apply rigorous skeptical inquiry to everything to minimize the chances of being wrong again.

Surely the right approach is not "Hey, we were wrong about the shape of the earth, so lets disregard empirical evidence, skeptical inquiry and the scientific method, and lets just agree with Shermana's fairy tale"

[bjs]

Notachance, I am unsure what question you are asking. In the opening post you talk about miraculous events in the Bible. Specifically, you appear to reference chapter 22 of Numbers, which records an event that took place thousands of years ago.

Later in the thread you demand empirical evidence for the event, specifically asking for video or photographic evidence. Since video was not invented until the 1920’s this request seems meaningless.

Please clarify what it is you wish to debate. If, as the opening post states, you want to debate the empirical evidence for the miracles recorded in the Bible, then in post five JW has effectively responded to your argument and there is little left to be said on the topic.

On the other hand, if you want to debate if there is empirical evidence for supernatural events taking place in the last 90 years then please say so clearly. If this is your goal then it would be wise to start a new thread to avoid confusion.

[notachance]

Notachance, I am unsure what question you are asking. In the opening post you talk about miraculous events in the Bible. Specifically, you appear to reference chapter 22 of Numbers, which records an event that took place thousands of years ago.

Later in the thread you demand empirical evidence for the event, specifically asking for video or photographic evidence. Since video was not invented until the 1920’s this request seems meaningless.

Please clarify what it is you wish to debate. If, as the opening post states, you want to debate the empirical evidence for the miracles recorded in the Bible, then in post five JW has effectively responded to your argument and there is little left to be said on the topic.

On the other hand, if you want to debate if there is empirical evidence for supernatural events taking place in the last 90 years then please say so clearly. If this is your goal then it would be wise to start a new thread to avoid confusion.

JW specifically asked me what evidence I would require of HIS CAT talking (present tense). I would expect him to videotape it.

Obviously for claims of supernatural events that happened before the invention of the video camera, that would not be possible, what, do you think I'm stupid?

The Bible DOES make claims of miracles that CAN be observed today, such as for example healing through prayer. The fact that no empirical evidence exists for that is very telling.

JW also specifically mentioned prophecies in earlier posts, but is refusing to give a specific example, because he knows there aren't any.

Anyway the point is that I will accept ANY kind of empirical evidence for ANY kind of supernatural Bible claim.

What I will not accept as evidence is Theists coming up with excuses for why there is no evidence.

Your explanation of why there is no evidence does not constitute evidence.

Just show me some evidence! What's the holdup?

[Goat]

Notachance, I am unsure what question you are asking. In the opening post you talk about miraculous events in the Bible. Specifically, you appear to reference chapter 22 of Numbers, which records an event that took place thousands of years ago.

Later in the thread you demand empirical evidence for the event, specifically asking for video or photographic evidence. Since video was not invented until the 1920’s this request seems meaningless.

Please clarify what it is you wish to debate. If, as the opening post states, you want to debate the empirical evidence for the miracles recorded in the Bible, then in post five JW has effectively responded to your argument and there is little left to be said on the topic.

On the other hand, if you want to debate if there is empirical evidence for supernatural events taking place in the last 90 years then please say so clearly. If this is your goal then it would be wise to start a new thread to avoid confusion.

JW specifically asked me what evidence I would require of HIS CAT talking (present tense). I would expect him to videotape it.

I am not sure a video tape out cut it these days.

[youtube][/youtube]

[notachance]

Notachance, I am unsure what question you are asking. In the opening post you talk about miraculous events in the Bible. Specifically, you appear to reference chapter 22 of Numbers, which records an event that took place thousands of years ago.

Later in the thread you demand empirical evidence for the event, specifically asking for video or photographic evidence. Since video was not invented until the 1920’s this request seems meaningless.

Please clarify what it is you wish to debate. If, as the opening post states, you want to debate the empirical evidence for the miracles recorded in the Bible, then in post five JW has effectively responded to your argument and there is little left to be said on the topic.

On the other hand, if you want to debate if there is empirical evidence for supernatural events taking place in the last 90 years then please say so clearly. If this is your goal then it would be wise to start a new thread to avoid confusion.

JW specifically asked me what evidence I would require of HIS CAT talking (present tense). I would expect him to videotape it.

I am not sure a video tape out cut it these days.

[youtube][/youtube]

True that. I guess that ship is sailed. At this point it would have to be an even more refined form of evidence.

What would you accept as evidence, Goat?

If I wanted to demonstrate, say, that I was able to raise the dead, what would convince you that that was the truth?

[Goat]

Notachance, I am unsure what question you are asking. In the opening post you talk about miraculous events in the Bible. Specifically, you appear to reference chapter 22 of Numbers, which records an event that took place thousands of years ago.

Later in the thread you demand empirical evidence for the event, specifically asking for video or photographic evidence. Since video was not invented until the 1920’s this request seems meaningless.

Please clarify what it is you wish to debate. If, as the opening post states, you want to debate the empirical evidence for the miracles recorded in the Bible, then in post five JW has effectively responded to your argument and there is little left to be said on the topic.

On the other hand, if you want to debate if there is empirical evidence for supernatural events taking place in the last 90 years then please say so clearly. If this is your goal then it would be wise to start a new thread to avoid confusion.

JW specifically asked me what evidence I would require of HIS CAT talking (present tense). I would expect him to videotape it.

I am not sure a video tape out cut it these days.

[youtube][/youtube]

True that. I guess that ship is sailed. At this point it would have to be an even more refined form of evidence.

What would you accept as evidence, Goat?

If I wanted to demonstrate, say, that I was able to raise the dead, what would convince you that that was the truth?

To let me play some cribbage with my father.. that would do it!
CGI does leave some traces behind, although less all the time. THere would have to be multiple sources for one.. not just one source. There has to be the convergence of evidence from independent sources. The problem with the claims of the supernatural in the Bible they don't have independent sources to confirm.

[notachance]

Notachance, I am unsure what question you are asking. In the opening post you talk about miraculous events in the Bible. Specifically, you appear to reference chapter 22 of Numbers, which records an event that took place thousands of years ago.

Later in the thread you demand empirical evidence for the event, specifically asking for video or photographic evidence. Since video was not invented until the 1920’s this request seems meaningless.

Please clarify what it is you wish to debate. If, as the opening post states, you want to debate the empirical evidence for the miracles recorded in the Bible, then in post five JW has effectively responded to your argument and there is little left to be said on the topic.

On the other hand, if you want to debate if there is empirical evidence for supernatural events taking place in the last 90 years then please say so clearly. If this is your goal then it would be wise to start a new thread to avoid confusion.

JW specifically asked me what evidence I would require of HIS CAT talking (present tense). I would expect him to videotape it.

I am not sure a video tape out cut it these days.

[youtube][/youtube]

True that. I guess that ship is sailed. At this point it would have to be an even more refined form of evidence.

What would you accept as evidence, Goat?

If I wanted to demonstrate, say, that I was able to raise the dead, what would convince you that that was the truth?

To let me play some cribbage with my father.. that would do it!
CGI does leave some traces behind, although less all the time. THere would have to be multiple sources for one.. not just one source. There has to be the convergence of evidence from independent sources. The problem with the claims of the supernatural in the Bible they don't have independent sources to confirm.

Hey, what is "cribbage" and what is CGI?

[McCulloch]

To let me play some cribbage with my father.. that would do it!
CGI does leave some traces behind, although less all the time. THere would have to be multiple sources for one.. not just one source. There has to be the convergence of evidence from independent sources. The problem with the claims of the supernatural in the Bible they don't have independent sources to confirm.

Hey, what is "cribbage" and what is CGI?

Cribbage is a card game.

CGI is an acronym for

1. Common Gateway Interface (web scripting facility)
2. Clinical Global Impression
3. Clinton Global Initiative
4. Computer-Generated Imagery (movie industry)
5. Can’t Get In
6. Code Général des Impôts (French Tax Code)
7. Center for Geographic Information
8. Computer Graphics International (conference)
9. Cognitively Guided Instruction
10. Compacted Graphite Iron
11. Church of God, International
12. Corrugated Iron
13. Coast Guard Institute (Oklahoma City, OK)
14. Computer Graphics Interface
15. Camp Gan Israel
16. Conseillers en Gestion et Informatique (French: Information Systems and Management Consultants)
17. Combustible Gas Indicator
18. Consultative Group for Indonesia
19. Compuserve Graphics Interchange
20. Clean Gas Induction (emissions reduction technology)
21. Charged Gasoline Injection (Mercedes-Benz)
22. Caisse de Garantie Immobilière (French: Guarantee Real Estate Fund)
23. Catholic Guides of Ireland
24. Certificate in General Insurance (accreditation)
25. Cape Girardeau, MO, USA - Municipal Airport (Airport Code)
26. Cell Global Identification
27. Commercial Grade Item
28. Creative Games International, Inc (Plant City, Florida, USA)
29. Control Grid Interpolation
30. Compagnie Générale des Insecticides (French: General Insecticides Company)
31. Centre de Géologie de l'Ingénieur (French: Center of Engineering Geology)
32. CyberGamer Invitational (gaming)
33. Computer Generated Interface
34. Consultants to Government and Industry (job sector)
35. Common Guard Interface
36. Certified Ground Instructor (FAA aviation training)
37. Columbia Grain International, Inc
38. Common Grounds Internet Cafe (an Internet Cafe in Buffalo, NY)
39. Corruption and Governance Index
40. Cruise Guide Indicator
41. Commanding General Inspection
42. Center of Gravity Indicator (helicopter instrument)
43. Carbon Graphite Iron

[notachance]

To let me play some cribbage with my father.. that would do it!
CGI does leave some traces behind, although less all the time. THere would have to be multiple sources for one.. not just one source. There has to be the convergence of evidence from independent sources. The problem with the claims of the supernatural in the Bible they don't have independent sources to confirm.

Hey, what is "cribbage" and what is CGI?

Cribbage is a card game.

CGI is an acronym for

1. Common Gateway Interface (web scripting facility)
2. Clinical Global Impression
3. Clinton Global Initiative
4. Computer-Generated Imagery (movie industry)
5. Can’t Get In
6. Code Général des Impôts (French Tax Code)
7. Center for Geographic Information
8. Computer Graphics International (conference)
9. Cognitively Guided Instruction
10. Compacted Graphite Iron
11. Church of God, International
12. Corrugated Iron
13. Coast Guard Institute (Oklahoma City, OK)
14. Computer Graphics Interface
15. Camp Gan Israel
16. Conseillers en Gestion et Informatique (French: Information Systems and Management Consultants)
17. Combustible Gas Indicator
18. Consultative Group for Indonesia
19. Compuserve Graphics Interchange
20. Clean Gas Induction (emissions reduction technology)
21. Charged Gasoline Injection (Mercedes-Benz)
22. Caisse de Garantie Immobilière (French: Guarantee Real Estate Fund)
23. Catholic Guides of Ireland
24. Certificate in General Insurance (accreditation)
25. Cape Girardeau, MO, USA - Municipal Airport (Airport Code)
26. Cell Global Identification
27. Commercial Grade Item
28. Creative Games International, Inc (Plant City, Florida, USA)
29. Control Grid Interpolation
30. Compagnie Générale des Insecticides (French: General Insecticides Company)
31. Centre de Géologie de l'Ingénieur (French: Center of Engineering Geology)
32. CyberGamer Invitational (gaming)
33. Computer Generated Interface
34. Consultants to Government and Industry (job sector)
35. Common Guard Interface
36. Certified Ground Instructor (FAA aviation training)
37. Columbia Grain International, Inc
38. Common Grounds Internet Cafe (an Internet Cafe in Buffalo, NY)
39. Corruption and Governance Index
40. Cruise Guide Indicator
41. Commanding General Inspection
42. Center of Gravity Indicator (helicopter instrument)
43. Carbon Graphite Iron

Hey Mcculloch, thank for narrowing it down to 43 things Goat might have meant! lol