Monotheism, Henotheism, Polytheism

[AquinasD]

This is a topic run through somewhat in another thread, but I wanted to go at this from a different angle and perhaps, with a new foundation, what I want to get across will be better understood.

There are many so-called "atheists" who make a kind of category error which puts their bona fides as an atheist in doubt. For one, atheism is commonly defined as "the disbelief in God and gods," and I'm not going to be calling for any new definitions or anything like that. However, if one were to understand just what it is that distinguishes monotheism, henotheism, and polytheism, then it ought to be plain that a grouping together a "disbelief in God" and a "disbelief in gods" is like grouping together a disbelief in causal interaction and a disbelief in the existence of unicorns. Granted, one might very well disbelieve both things, but they are disbeliefs in two very different kinds of things.

What I want to explain is how a monotheist can say, in a literally meaningful way, that "I don't believe in gods and I am not an atheist." That is, a monotheist believes in a fundamentally different kind of thing than do polytheists and henotheists.

I will give some definitions. These definitions are essentially impossible to argue with, because if one does, then one loses the distinction between monotheism and henotheism.

Monotheism - a belief in one God who is Absolute, who forms the foundation of fundamental reality

Examples: Yahweh, Brahman, Allah

Henotheism - a belief in and worship of one god (though there could be others), but who is not the foundation of fundamental reality

Examples: Yahweh, Zeus, Amun-Ra

Polytheism - a belief in many gods, who tend to be the patrons of certain parts of nature or geography

Examples: Zeus, Thor, Vishnu

As to the examples I chose, I picked them based on what some of the adherents of their religions believe about the nature of the being picked out by these names. It is worth noting that I placed Yahweh in both monotheism and henotheism, and Zeus in henotheism and polytheism. These are due to historical details that I will get around to; however, these historical details are completely irrelevant to the fundamental ontological differences between monotheism, henotheism, and polytheism that I am meaning to speak about. The reason why will preface the discussion of the historical details.

The way many atheists tend to speak about it, you would believe that monotheists are really just henotheists. Consider the fundamental supposition belied in the popular quote by Stephen Roberts: "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do." The way Roberts is speaking about the matter, you'd be under the impression that, for monotheists, the God they believe in is essentially of the same kind and category as Thor and Zeus tend to be placed in. An atheist like Roberts just goes one step further than the monotheist and excises that one last "god" the monotheist asserts from his picture of the world. It is quite a neat quote, except that it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding at the heart of just what the monotheist believes in. Because of this, it leads me to doubt that many so-called atheists actually achieve a disbelief in God. Now, they may be quite successful in disbelieving of gods (I'm there with them on that), but atheism is defined as "a disbelief in God and gods." Since God and gods inhabit two completely different categories of being, saying that God is just a god belies the fact that our so-called atheist never graduated Sunday school where these rather elementary distinctions comprise a difference in just what one happens to believe or disbelieve.

As I pointed out above, a monotheist can literally say of their position that "I don't believe in gods and I am not an atheist." How so? Well, I will point out the logical form of that statement for a beginning.

Atheism is defined as "a disbelief in God and gods." Let a stand for God and b stand for (at least one) god/s. Thus, atheism is not(a or b), which can also be represented as not-a and not-b. a and b are not identical. Where the existence of a god is logically compatible with the existence of other gods, the existence of God is not compatible with the existence of another God.

A monotheist does assert a. Therefore, while they may assert not-b, to assert such isn't to assert not-a. Further, the assertion of a does not mean the assertion of b.

That is the logical form of the monotheist's ability to disbelieve in gods. Now why is what the monotheist believes in of a different kind than what the henotheist/polytheist believes in?

First, God is absolute, a transcendent reality of whom there cannot be a plurality of distinct Gods. For the set of divine beings, it cannot admit of more than one God. Further, that one God is necessarily as He is; it is necessary that such a God exists, and it is necessary that God be as He is. So, if we say that God is omnipotent, it is necessarily the case that God is omnipotent; God is not God unless He is omnipotent, and if you are thinking of a non-omnipotent being, you are not thinking of God. Moreover, God is the foundation of fundamental reality. He is the reason why there can be anything at all, and why there can be what there is. He provides an explanation for the whole set of existence, including Himself.

A god, on the other hand, is not postulated to be such a fundamental reality. Such beings can be generated, can die, and are essentially limited beings. They are not foundational, with some other thing having to explain why they can be. They are contingent beings, who do not need to exist and do not need to be what they are. For any god, the existence of other gods is compatible.

I hope this is sufficient to denote the essential difference between God and gods, and why one cannot put God in the gods category, that it is a fundamental mistake. If one were to do so, it would be hard to say that one actually achieves a disbelief in God as I've described Him to be.

Questions for discussion:

Can one be an atheist without being able to articulate the differences between a "disbelief in God" and a "disbelief in gods?"

[alive]

Is it really meaningful to distinguish between the deist's God, One God in three Persons, the more obviously monotheistic Gods of Islam and Judaism, the many gods of polytheism or for that matter, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, djinn and all of the other allegedly spiritual beings?

I don't know what these things are and I don't believe in them.

I don't believe in ghosts or fairies, but if something goes bump in the night, it'd make more sense to blame a ghost than a fairy.

One night I woke up and saw someone had made a pot of lentils on my stove, in a way that you're not supposed to make it (Taking it out of the boil-bag).

No one else could have possibly it that night unless they broke into my house, or I sleptwalk and made lentils incorrectly.

Darn cats.

Or maybe someone broke in who had the munchies.

I walked into my hotel room and grabed a beer out of the red cooler and started drinking it turned on the tv went to the bathroom and laid in the bed...Then I saw a purse on the table... I relized i was on in the wrong room... Wrong floor actually.. When I got back to my room I relized I left the beer open half drank with the tv on and a messed up bed... Never thought they may have thought God was in their room drinking a Bud..

[alive]

This is a topic run through somewhat in another thread, but I wanted to go at this from a different angle and perhaps, with a new foundation, what I want to get across will be better understood.

There are many so-called "atheists" who make a kind of category error which puts their bona fides as an atheist in doubt. For one, atheism is commonly defined as "the disbelief in God and gods," and I'm not going to be calling for any new definitions or anything like that. However, if one were to understand just what it is that distinguishes monotheism, henotheism, and polytheism, then it ought to be plain that a grouping together a "disbelief in God" and a "disbelief in gods" is like grouping together a disbelief in causal interaction and a disbelief in the existence of unicorns. Granted, one might very well disbelieve both things, but they are disbeliefs in two very different kinds of things.

What I want to explain is how a monotheist can say, in a literally meaningful way, that "I don't believe in gods and I am not an atheist." That is, a monotheist believes in a fundamentally different kind of thing than do polytheists and henotheists.

I will give some definitions. These definitions are essentially impossible to argue with, because if one does, then one loses the distinction between monotheism and henotheism.

Monotheism - a belief in one God who is Absolute, who forms the foundation of fundamental reality

Examples: Yahweh, Brahman, Allah

Henotheism - a belief in and worship of one god (though there could be others), but who is not the foundation of fundamental reality

Examples: Yahweh, Zeus, Amun-Ra

Polytheism - a belief in many gods, who tend to be the patrons of certain parts of nature or geography

Examples: Zeus, Thor, Vishnu

As to the examples I chose, I picked them based on what some of the adherents of their religions believe about the nature of the being picked out by these names. It is worth noting that I placed Yahweh in both monotheism and henotheism, and Zeus in henotheism and polytheism. These are due to historical details that I will get around to; however, these historical details are completely irrelevant to the fundamental ontological differences between monotheism, henotheism, and polytheism that I am meaning to speak about. The reason why will preface the discussion of the historical details.

The way many atheists tend to speak about it, you would believe that monotheists are really just henotheists. Consider the fundamental supposition belied in the popular quote by Stephen Roberts: "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do." The way Roberts is speaking about the matter, you'd be under the impression that, for monotheists, the God they believe in is essentially of the same kind and category as Thor and Zeus tend to be placed in. An atheist like Roberts just goes one step further than the monotheist and excises that one last "god" the monotheist asserts from his picture of the world. It is quite a neat quote, except that it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding at the heart of just what the monotheist believes in. Because of this, it leads me to doubt that many so-called atheists actually achieve a disbelief in God. Now, they may be quite successful in disbelieving of gods (I'm there with them on that), but atheism is defined as "a disbelief in God and gods." Since God and gods inhabit two completely different categories of being, saying that God is just a god belies the fact that our so-called atheist never graduated Sunday school where these rather elementary distinctions comprise a difference in just what one happens to believe or disbelieve.

As I pointed out above, a monotheist can literally say of their position that "I don't believe in gods and I am not an atheist." How so? Well, I will point out the logical form of that statement for a beginning.

Atheism is defined as "a disbelief in God and gods." Let a stand for God and b stand for (at least one) god/s. Thus, atheism is not(a or b), which can also be represented as not-a and not-b. a and b are not identical. Where the existence of a god is logically compatible with the existence of other gods, the existence of God is not compatible with the existence of another God.

A monotheist does assert a. Therefore, while they may assert not-b, to assert such isn't to assert not-a. Further, the assertion of a does not mean the assertion of b.

That is the logical form of the monotheist's ability to disbelieve in gods. Now why is what the monotheist believes in of a different kind than what the henotheist/polytheist believes in?

First, God is absolute, a transcendent reality of whom there cannot be a plurality of distinct Gods. For the set of divine beings, it cannot admit of more than one God. Further, that one God is necessarily as He is; it is necessary that such a God exists, and it is necessary that God be as He is. So, if we say that God is omnipotent, it is necessarily the case that God is omnipotent; God is not God unless He is omnipotent, and if you are thinking of a non-omnipotent being, you are not thinking of God. Moreover, God is the foundation of fundamental reality. He is the reason why there can be anything at all, and why there can be what there is. He provides an explanation for the whole set of existence, including Himself.

A god, on the other hand, is not postulated to be such a fundamental reality. Such beings can be generated, can die, and are essentially limited beings. They are not foundational, with some other thing having to explain why they can be. They are contingent beings, who do not need to exist and do not need to be what they are. For any god, the existence of other gods is compatible.

I hope this is sufficient to denote the essential difference between God and gods, and why one cannot put God in the gods category, that it is a fundamental mistake. If one were to do so, it would be hard to say that one actually achieves a disbelief in God as I've described Him to be.

Questions for discussion:

Can one be an atheist without being able to articulate the differences between a "disbelief in God" and a "disbelief in gods?"

Still one an the same...Its just were down to the Default Gods...Ones that are for real if you want to believe in them...But if you don't ... Don't sweat it, they cant hurt ya..

[Shermana]

Is it really meaningful to distinguish between the deist's God, One God in three Persons, the more obviously monotheistic Gods of Islam and Judaism, the many gods of polytheism or for that matter, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, djinn and all of the other allegedly spiritual beings?

I don't know what these things are and I don't believe in them.

I don't believe in ghosts or fairies, but if something goes bump in the night, it'd make more sense to blame a ghost than a fairy.

One night I woke up and saw someone had made a pot of lentils on my stove, in a way that you're not supposed to make it (Taking it out of the boil-bag).

No one else could have possibly it that night unless they broke into my house, or I sleptwalk and made lentils incorrectly.

Darn cats.

Or maybe someone broke in who had the munchies.

I walked into my hotel room and grabed a beer out of the red cooler and started drinking it turned on the tv went to the bathroom and laid in the bed...Then I saw a purse on the table... I relized i was on in the wrong room... Wrong floor actually.. When I got back to my room I relized I left the beer open half drank with the tv on and a messed up bed... Never thought they may have thought God was in their room drinking a Bud..

And that's comparable with what happened to my lentils?

I have to ask which hotel you went to that the door was unlocked when the occupant left.

[alive]

Is it really meaningful to distinguish between the deist's God, One God in three Persons, the more obviously monotheistic Gods of Islam and Judaism, the many gods of polytheism or for that matter, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, djinn and all of the other allegedly spiritual beings?

I don't know what these things are and I don't believe in them.

I don't believe in ghosts or fairies, but if something goes bump in the night, it'd make more sense to blame a ghost than a fairy.

One night I woke up and saw someone had made a pot of lentils on my stove, in a way that you're not supposed to make it (Taking it out of the boil-bag).

No one else could have possibly it that night unless they broke into my house, or I sleptwalk and made lentils incorrectly.

Darn cats.

Or maybe someone broke in who had the munchies.

I walked into my hotel room and grabed a beer out of the red cooler and started drinking it turned on the tv went to the bathroom and laid in the bed...Then I saw a purse on the table... I relized i was on in the wrong room... Wrong floor actually.. When I got back to my room I relized I left the beer open half drank with the tv on and a messed up bed... Never thought they may have thought God was in their room drinking a Bud..

And that's comparable with what happened to my lentils?

I have to ask which hotel you went to that the door was unlocked when the occupant left.

Some drunk was hungry and took him a little to figure out where he was such as I...


Treasure Island... Trying to remeber the name..It will come to me....Always make sure you door is all the way shut... With my kids Ive come back to the rooms lots of times and the door isn't shut all the way..

[Shermana]

Is it really meaningful to distinguish between the deist's God, One God in three Persons, the more obviously monotheistic Gods of Islam and Judaism, the many gods of polytheism or for that matter, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, djinn and all of the other allegedly spiritual beings?

I don't know what these things are and I don't believe in them.

I don't believe in ghosts or fairies, but if something goes bump in the night, it'd make more sense to blame a ghost than a fairy.

One night I woke up and saw someone had made a pot of lentils on my stove, in a way that you're not supposed to make it (Taking it out of the boil-bag).

No one else could have possibly it that night unless they broke into my house, or I sleptwalk and made lentils incorrectly.

Darn cats.

Or maybe someone broke in who had the munchies.

I walked into my hotel room and grabed a beer out of the red cooler and started drinking it turned on the tv went to the bathroom and laid in the bed...Then I saw a purse on the table... I relized i was on in the wrong room... Wrong floor actually.. When I got back to my room I relized I left the beer open half drank with the tv on and a messed up bed... Never thought they may have thought God was in their room drinking a Bud..

And that's comparable with what happened to my lentils?

I have to ask which hotel you went to that the door was unlocked when the occupant left.

Some drunk was hungry and took him a little to figure out where he was such as I...


Treasure Island... Trying to remeber the name..It will come to me....Always make sure you door is all the way shut... With my kids Ive come back to the rooms lots of times and the door isn't shut all the way..

He must have been really skilled at picking locks or something I guess. And he didn't even eat any!

[alive]

Is it really meaningful to distinguish between the deist's God, One God in three Persons, the more obviously monotheistic Gods of Islam and Judaism, the many gods of polytheism or for that matter, angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, djinn and all of the other allegedly spiritual beings?

I don't know what these things are and I don't believe in them.

I don't believe in ghosts or fairies, but if something goes bump in the night, it'd make more sense to blame a ghost than a fairy.

One night I woke up and saw someone had made a pot of lentils on my stove, in a way that you're not supposed to make it (Taking it out of the boil-bag).

No one else could have possibly it that night unless they broke into my house, or I sleptwalk and made lentils incorrectly.

Darn cats.

Or maybe someone broke in who had the munchies.

I walked into my hotel room and grabed a beer out of the red cooler and started drinking it turned on the tv went to the bathroom and laid in the bed...Then I saw a purse on the table... I relized i was on in the wrong room... Wrong floor actually.. When I got back to my room I relized I left the beer open half drank with the tv on and a messed up bed... Never thought they may have thought God was in their room drinking a Bud..

And that's comparable with what happened to my lentils?

I have to ask which hotel you went to that the door was unlocked when the occupant left.

Some drunk was hungry and took him a little to figure out where he was such as I...


Treasure Island... Trying to remeber the name..It will come to me....Always make sure you door is all the way shut... With my kids Ive come back to the rooms lots of times and the door isn't shut all the way..

He must have been really skilled at picking locks or something I guess. And he didn't even eat any!

Might of just slightly left it open.. Figured out his mistake and bolted... Actually I would have called the cops...

On another possible "food miracle" I had someone tell me of a proof of a miricale...He said with a straight face that he was so busy all week that he was so tired of eating fast food that he prayed for a home cooked meal...And low and behold he got out early and his wife cooked his favorite Chichen Platter...Thats it...His one and only proof On his whole reason he believes...Chicken dinner...

[Shermana]

Might of just slightly left it open.. Figured out his mistake and bolted... Actually I would have called the cops...

I distinctly remember the door being locked as I wondered what happened. Why would I call the cops? That would be the worlds' worst burglar. He didn't even steal anything. Left me the lentils even!

On another possible "food miracle" I had someone tell me of a proof of a miricale...He said with a straight face that he was so busy all week that he was so tired of eating fast food that he prayed for a home cooked meal...And low and behold he got out early and his wife cooked his favorite Chichen Platter...Thats it...His one and only proof On his whole reason he believes...Chicken dinner...

[/quote]

I fail to see how that's in any way close to what happened here.

[alive]

Might of just slightly left it open.. Figured out his mistake and bolted... Actually I would have called the cops...

I distinctly remember the door being locked as I wondered what happened. Why would I call the cops? That would be the worlds' worst burglar. He didn't even steal anything. Left me the lentils even!

On another possible "food miracle" I had someone tell me of a proof of a miricale...He said with a straight face that he was so busy all week that he was so tired of eating fast food that he prayed for a home cooked meal...And low and behold he got out early and his wife cooked his favorite Chichen Platter...Thats it...His one and only proof On his whole reason he believes...Chicken dinner...

I fail to see how that's in any way close to what happened here.[/quote]

Why wouldn't call the cops? Someone you dont know was in your house... Might come back again if he knows your not worried about it..

[dusk]

Can one be an atheist without being able to articulate the differences between a "disbelief in God" and a "disbelief in gods?"

As far as the rest of the post goes its good but the question on the end seems a bit stupid.
You don't have to understand something to disbelieve in it. Even if an Atheist neither is able to articulate nor has any clue, he/she still doesn't believe in your god. A more intelligent question would be does a Christian who doesn't understand those differences (and they definitely do exist) really believe in god? The Christian says so and thinks so but if there is no real understanding can it be said it is still a Christian.

Generally I think you are right there are probably many Atheists that have no real clue about what monotheism really means. Most that show any interest in Philosophy usually do they just don't much care. The personal Theist god is still more of a being to be the generic foundation of all. You don't pray to love, you pray to god. The Yaweh/Allah/God still has more in common with the Polytheistic god than some deist world force. He wants stuff, dislikes stuff.

I think what is bad about the definition of Atheism, how it is often used, is that 'theism' gets lost. It is usually the theistic part that there is true and definite disbelief in. The personal god of any kind. And Yaweh is still one such.
Some world force, generic love or such is just not the same thing and usually more considered a tautological problem than belief in god/deities.