Why live?

[alive]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

[alive]

Virtue.... Well if a god gives life why not virtue... Once again another meaningless step if the grand scheme is enternity in heaven..

Virtue isn't something that can be given. God cannot give virtue, because it is such that it just can't be given. God can no more instantiate a square circle than He could give someone their virtue; a logical contradiction.

He can't.... What else can the all powerful god not do? Finaly someone that knows what God is capable of.. Or in this case not capable..

[Flail]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

If I'm correctly getting your drift, I agree with your premise. It makes no coherent sense to me why the creator of the universe would give us life for a relatively minuscule span of time for the sole purpose that we credulously believe with all our hearts in some first century legend. We then are relieved of all responsibility for all the harm we have caused other people without one requirement that we atone. Then we live for all of eternity with no strife, no challenge, no worry. Sounds like hell to me given the abject boredom of the place.

I prefer to think that we must be on some course of eternal evolution, always striving, always improving and checking ourselves and getting hold of ourselves for continued betterment and altruism.

Believe it or not, some Christians believe that the earth is the sole planet in all the universe to house intelligent human comparable life. It's been awhile since I studied basic astronomy, but I recall the 'known' universe is at least 13 billion light years in diameter. So if you could hop on a light beam traveling 186,000 miles per second you would have to travel at that speed for 13 billion years to even reach the edge of what astrologists have 'observed' so far.

We launched Voyager I around 1978 and traveling at our top rocket speed of 60,000 miles an hour it has just now exited our own solar system...a whopping distance traveled of 13 light days and it only took 35 years. In another 500,000 years at 60,000 mph it will hopefully approach the nearest solar system to ours that may support intelligent life...our neighbor ONLY 20 light years distant. The universe is a really big place to waste on one dusty little abode for human beings.

[JCviggen]

I agree with the OP, and would like to add that an "eternal" afterlife seems more like a curse than a gift. Experiencing infinite time is a punishment that I wouldn't wish my worst enemies.

Also, why would an eternal entity create us after already being around "forever" and with "forever" to go? It can't be boredom obviously...on an infinite timescale creating temporary life is infinitely irrelevant.

[The Tongue]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

Why would the creative force that created your body from the dirt that had been converted, into grain, fruit, dairy and meat products, etc, etc, which were taken into the pregnant body of your mother, where, from those universal elements your body was created, bother creating that body of yours, in which “YOU,� the invisible mind/spirit are evolving/developing, and continue to evolve from all the experiences and information taken in through the senses of that body? Why didn’t the creative force, simply create “YOU� the invisible mind, why put “YOU� through the stupid step of physical life?

Perhaps there is a God, who has evolved in some far distant past generation of the eternal physical universal body, a body which is believed to oscillate between a state of visible matter, and invisible energy, in which a supreme personality of Godhead, evolves in each physical period of universal activity.

Perhaps The “Son of Man,� a multi-celled androgynous invisible being, is the Son of the Godhead to have evolved in the previous universal body, which still exists out there, somewhere in Space-time.

Perhaps Mankind, who is the Most High in this created universal body, or on the ladder of evolution, and a great androgynous body, of male and female cells, is the physical mother body, in which the embryonic spiritual Son of God is being formed.

A son who gains, the great, knowledge, wisdom and insight, that is needed by the heir to the throne of Godhead, by the lessons that he learns from the pain and suffer that the body in which he is developing endures because of the sins and mistakes that are made by that body.

Perhaps God, the Father of his spiritual Son, who is born or evolves from the body of mankind, has demanded that all must pay the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which they develop, and all the sins of that body in which they had developed, should be ascribed to the spirit/mind that had developed within that body?

What do you reckon matey.

[The Tongue]

I agree with the OP, and would like to add that an "eternal" afterlife seems more like a curse than a gift. Experiencing infinite time is a punishment that I wouldn't wish my worst enemies.

Also, why would an eternal entity create us after already being around "forever" and with "forever" to go? It can't be boredom obviously...on an infinite timescale creating temporary life is infinitely irrelevant.

Speak for yourself youngen. My greatest quest in life is to understand the workings of the eternal and boundless cosmos, and if I could live a trillion human life spans, I would never fulfil that quest.

For I believe that the cosmos continues to evolves into eternity, in that each generation of the universe, develops within it, a Supreme Personality of Godhead who takes his position in space-time, among the ever growing family of God.

You may witness the light of some massive galactic body, some tens of billions of light years away in space, but does that Galactic body exist in your real time?

[alive]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

If I'm correctly getting your drift, I agree with your premise. It makes no coherent sense to me why the creator of the universe would give us life for a relatively minuscule span of time for the sole purpose that we credulously believe with all our hearts in some first century legend. We then are relieved of all responsibility for all the harm we have caused other people without one requirement that we atone. Then we live for all of eternity with no strife, no challenge, no worry. Sounds like hell to me given the abject boredom of the place.

I prefer to think that we must be on some course of eternal evolution, always striving, always improving and checking ourselves and getting hold of ourselves for continued betterment and altruism.

Believe it or not, some Christians believe that the earth is the sole planet in all the universe to house intelligent human comparable life. It's been awhile since I studied basic astronomy, but I recall the 'known' universe is at least 13 billion light years in diameter. So if you could hop on a light beam traveling 186,000 miles per second you would have to travel at that speed for 13 billion years to even reach the edge of what astrologists have 'observed' so far.

We launched Voyager I around 1978 and traveling at our top rocket speed of 60,000 miles an hour it has just now exited our own solar system...a whopping distance traveled of 13 light days and it only took 35 years. In another 500,000 years at 60,000 mph it will hopefully approach the nearest solar system to ours that may support intelligent life...our neighbor ONLY 20 light years distant. The universe is a really big place to waste on one dusty little abode for human beings.

Actualy the time of things is where I started my questioning of god related materials... And I couldn't figure out where scientist were getting their calculations and astronomy had all the answers for me ... The speed of light was the key... And our technology in telescopes improving as such we are able to see light even further which make the universe bigger and older everyday... Also makes us even a smaller grain of sand...My wifes Christian teachings was so messed up she was sure that Dinos were just a theory and that all the finding were just fake...It took me years to finaly get her agree they existed and the timeline they existed in...It really opened her eyes... She still believes in God but not in a true Christian way..

[Tex]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

Tex: Life, is just that; a "speck" of time..... compared to eternity. If people can't understand and respect the gift that has been given to them.....Then they will not respect eternal life.

God already knows.....But we don't.

More like a nano second if enternity in heaven is the goal...If god already knows once again why the step.

Tex: Again....Have you lived your life yet? How can you be judge without living your life?

[ttruscott]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

Well, I intend to answer this question explicity: Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born?

So, as I have been led to understand events of our creation until our birth on earth for the True Glory of the GOD WHO IS LOVE:
1st. the creation of all spirits in HIS image
2nd. the first commandment to accept or reject GOD's plans for this creation
3d. resulting in the split between those who bowed by free will and those who rebelled by free will to this plan
4th. GOD's choice / election of the one's who accepted HIM as GOD, predestining them to be conformed to the image of HIS Son and granting them HIS divine love AND declaring the curse of damnation on any who rejected HIS plan.

Thus not only is our free will a completely necessary part of our self chosen destiny, it is mingled strongly with GOD's expression of HIS love for the one's who chose to join HIS church; election, predestination, and the gospel.

5th. the rebellion of some of HIS elect against HIS damnation of the non-elect so that these elect too became sinners, outside of HIS will but not of HIS love.

6th. And so HE created the physical universe and earth in particular where HIS sinful elect would have perfectly predestined lives whereby they could feel the suffering that sin causes and learn by experience that the non-elect will never repent and so must be damned.

These lives were also are the platform upon which HE built their redemption by the death of Christ on the cross and their sanctification until they are holy and finally willing to accpt the righteous judgment of HIS eternal enemies and the day of judgment comes.

That is why we are here and that is why satan struggles so fiercely to keep us in our sins, for the longer HIS elect are in sin, satan is safe from the postponed judgment.

Peace, Ted

[alive]

Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born? Just wake up in heaven.. We make no sense. A true god that most are wanting that created everything in the universe would not need living specks of like on a grain of sand in the universe...Why even make anything outside of heaven... I don't think believers have put a real effort on if there realy was a god what the heck would even bother with us...Would you?

For a second take god out of existance...There are countless ways life could of happen...Now add god back in and you were god... I have a universe with maybe 100's of millions of planets...My only thing Im worried about is getting humans to heaven?

I hope Im still alive when everyone wakes up..

Well, I intend to answer this question explicity: Why would god have us do this stupid step? Why even be born?

So, as I have been led to understand events of our creation until our birth on earth for the True Glory of the GOD WHO IS LOVE:
1st. the creation of all spirits in HIS image
2nd. the first commandment to accept or reject GOD's plans for this creation
3d. resulting in the split between those who bowed by free will and those who rebelled by free will to this plan
4th. GOD's choice / election of the one's who accepted HIM as GOD, predestining them to be conformed to the image of HIS Son and granting them HIS divine love AND declaring the curse of damnation on any who rejected HIS plan.

Thus not only is our free will a completely necessary part of our self chosen destiny, it is mingled strongly with GOD's expression of HIS love for the one's who chose to join HIS church; election, predestination, and the gospel.

5th. the rebellion of some of HIS elect against HIS damnation of the non-elect so that these elect too became sinners, outside of HIS will but not of HIS love.

6th. And so HE created the physical universe and earth in particular where HIS sinful elect would have perfectly predestined lives whereby they could feel the suffering that sin causes and learn by experience that the non-elect will never repent and so must be damned.

These lives were also are the platform upon which HE built their redemption by the death of Christ on the cross and their sanctification until they are holy and finally willing to accpt the righteous judgment of HIS eternal enemies and the day of judgment comes.

That is why we are here and that is why satan struggles so fiercely to keep us in our sins, for the longer HIS elect are in sin, satan is safe from the postponed judgment.

Peace, Ted

God= Love? Human concept.

This all may have satisfied you on the reasoning of this step...But it does not even come close as a answer to anything... There shoud not be a reason to reject Gods plan except for the simple fact there is no god humans have made up so far that could be considered Godly..Sure Gods did abounch of great things back in the day until we found that these were just natural events that happen all the time...The extixtion of the theory of Gods should of ended long ago...I cant understand the need of a Powerless God that can only be decribed though faith... I have no problem with the concept of a god but you first need one to worry about one..

[JCviggen]

So, as I have been led to understand events of our creation until our birth on earth for the True Glory of the GOD WHO IS LOVE:
1st. the creation of all spirits in HIS image

Roughly, I suppose...or was God asian, black, caucasian...?

2nd. the first commandment to accept or reject GOD's plans for this creation

Not to inject too much reality into this, but what about the billions of humans who lived before even the OT was written?

4th. GOD's choice / election of the one's who accepted HIM as GOD, predestining them to be conformed to the image of HIS Son and granting them HIS divine love AND declaring the curse of damnation on any who rejected HIS plan.

What about those who never even heard or were told of him and the whole story? Sending your sun down into a rough patch in the middle east doesn't magically inform every human on the planet of "the plan".
Are the ignorant automatically accepted since they did not reject it, or can they not be accepted because they never had a choice to make?

Thus not only is our free will a completely necessary part of our self chosen destiny, it is mingled strongly with GOD's expression of HIS love for the one's who chose to join HIS church; election, predestination, and the gospel.

So there is the gift of free will, but you'll be punished for eternity if you don't choose what the deity wants you to choose. Bit of a poisoned present innit? It's also unclear exactly what the choice is based on. Personal preference? Predetermination? Lack of information about good and bad?

5th. the rebellion of some of HIS elect against HIS damnation of the non-elect so that these elect too became sinners, outside of HIS will but not of HIS love.

So if one's morals conflict with the will of the big boss, you're bad as well. Who gave them these morals in the first place?

6th. And so HE created the physical universe and earth in particular where HIS sinful elect would have perfectly predestined lives whereby they could feel the suffering that sin causes and learn by experience that the non-elect will never repent and so must be damned.

Earth in particular? What's 99.999999999999... percent of the universe for then?

If it's predestined (no choice) then how is there anything to learn? It's already predestined that they will not repent then?

That is why we are here and that is why satan struggles so fiercely to keep us in our sins, for the longer HIS elect are in sin, satan is safe from the postponed judgment.

This God figure isn't omnipotent after all?

Peace, Ted

Most of the story doesn't sound very peaceful to me...