God and Sin

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 18 here:

...
I suspect that comment stems from ignorance of the concept of sin against God and its consequences.
...

For debate:

Please show a god considers anything to be a "sin".

Are those who claim to possess such knowledge, but are incapable of showing such to be anything more than their own personal beliefs, guilty of any "ignorance" in this regard?

[kayky]

Mark Twain was actually a pseudonym, so the man in question never actually wrote anything.

Joey. C'mon. His real name was Samuel Clemons. Using a pen name does not do away with your actual existence. It would probably be more accurate to say that Samuel Clemons never wrote anything. At the end of the day, they are the same person.

[JoeyKnothead]

Are you seriously questioning the authorship of Mark Twain? How can this possibly be compared to texts written thousands of years ago?

Your posts remind me of a drive-by shooting. Care to come back and defend your position?

When is the cut off date for knowing who wrote what?

The very second one doesn't.

When is that?

The very second one does or doesn't know something is the very second one does or doesn't know something.

[Rkrause]

Are you seriously questioning the authorship of Mark Twain? How can this possibly be compared to texts written thousands of years ago?

Your posts remind me of a drive-by shooting. Care to come back and defend your position?

When is the cut off date for knowing who wrote what?

The very second one doesn't.

When is that?

The very second one does or doesn't know something is the very second one does or doesn't know something.

Please prove to me that the Roman empire existed.

[JoeyKnothead]

Mark Twain was actually a pseudonym, so the man in question never actually wrote anything.

Joey. C'mon. His real name was Samuel Clemons. Using a pen name does not do away with your actual existence. It would probably be more accurate to say that Samuel Clemons never wrote anything. At the end of the day, they are the same person.

I'll rephrase...

Whether this dude here did or didn't do something is no reason to conclude that'n over there did or didn't do something.

[kayky]

When is the cut off date for knowing who wrote what?

I'm pretty sure it goes back more than 150 years!

Do you ever try to reason things out in your own mind without consulting scripture? If not, does it bother you at all that you have surrendered your own powers of reason in favor of that of men who lived thousands of years ago?

[kayky]

Please prove to me that the Roman empire existed.

Okay. We have ruins, relics, and writings from that period--not just in Rome but in all the countries Rome conquered. Even the Bible speaks of the Roman Empire. The early church fathers speak of it. The evidence is overwhelming. There can be no doubt that the Roman Empire existed.

What's your point?

[Rkrause]

When is the cut off date for knowing who wrote what?

I'm pretty sure it goes back more than 150 years!

Do you ever try to reason things out in your own mind without consulting scripture? If not, does it bother you at all that you have surrendered your own powers of reason in favor of that of men who lived thousands of years ago?

Using reason doesn't mean you automatically throw away belief in God. It is through reason that I understand who God is and why He does what He does.

When I go camping with my family I start fires using char cloth and flint just like they did hundreds of years ago. History can teach you many things. Ignoring people that lived 1000's of years ago is a huge mistake. When the power goes out and technology fails who's knowledge do we use to survive?

[kayky]

I'll rephrase...

Whether this dude here did or didn't do something is no reason to conclude that'n over there did or didn't do something.

Okay. I see. The English major in me has been appeased.

[Rkrause]

Please prove to me that the Roman empire existed.

Okay. We have ruins, relics, and writings from that period--not just in Rome but in all the countries Rome conquered. Even the Bible speaks of the Roman Empire. The early church fathers speak of it. The evidence is overwhelming. There can be no doubt that the Roman Empire existed.

What's your point?

All this evidence is too old and we can't verify who wrote the history so it can't be trusted. That is all your opinions based on other peoples opinions.

See how that works in regard to the Bible? You pick and choose what to belive in and so do I.

BTW, I do believe the roman empire existed but I can't prove it.

[kayky]

Using reason doesn't mean you automatically throw away belief in God.

Of course not. I too believe in God. It is not an irrational belief.

It is through reason that I understand who God is and why He does what He does.

Are you sure? Or do you simply take for granted that every word in the Bible is true?

When I go camping with my family I start fires using char cloth and flint just like they did hundreds of years ago. History can teach you many things. Ignoring people that lived 1000's of years ago is a huge mistake. When the power goes out and technology fails who's knowledge do we use to survive?

I agree that it would be a huge mistake to dismiss the Bible simply because it is old. I love the Bible. I have studied it extensively throughout my life and continue to use it in my spiritual practice. I am a Christian, an Episcopalian.

The problem comes in when you think that God wrote the Bible; and therefore, it is without error. This is not a rational belief. The Bible was written by a wide variety of men over vast periods of time. Some of these men probably were inspired by their experience of God. Some much less so. Some maybe not at all. Have you ever known of any human endeavor that is not open to error? Why should the Bible be any different?

Have you ever noticed that ideas about God evolve from the Old Testament to the New? Why shouldn't our ideas about God continue to evolve as we progress as a species, having a much greater understanding of how the universe works and what it means to be human?