Are there any here?

Allahakbar · Post by **Allahakbar** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:42 am

Are there any two "bible believing christians" on this site who's interpretation of the words of the bible are identical?

99percentatheism · Post by **99percentatheism** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:43 am

Moses Yoder wrote: No, I don't believe there are two identical people in the world. If there were, they couldn't identify us by our DNA or by our fingerprints. Are there any two atheists on here with identical world views?

Without doubt the answer is YES. Free thinkers?

Really?

Now what would have been better fot the OP, would be to post some scripture and then ask for "interpretations.

Such as

"No one comes to the Father but through Me."

And:

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

It would better serve this category if scriptures were presented and then allow "different Christians" to say what they say.

The New Testament well be found to be a well defined body of work.

Yada, yada, etc., etc., etc..

Allahakbar · Post by **Allahakbar** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:03 am

99percentatheism wrote:
Moses Yoder wrote: No, I don't believe there are two identical people in the world. If there were, they couldn't identify us by our DNA or by our fingerprints. Are there any two atheists on here with identical world views?
Without doubt the answer is YES. Free thinkers?

Really?

Now what would have been better fot the OP, would be to post some scripture and then ask for "interpretations.

Such as

"No one comes to the Father but through Me."
And:

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
It would better serve this category if scriptures were presented and then allow "different Christians" to say what they say.

The New Testament well be found to be a well defined body of work.

Yada, yada, etc., etc., etc..

Well now how helpful can someone be? Thanks 99!
Okay biblicals lets have your interpretations of the passages that 99 has posted. I've already seen conflict between biblicals over these passages on here but let's have at it.
Good ole 99 has laid the challenge it should then fall to him to provide the first interpretations.
Up to you 99.

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:25 pm

99percentatheism wrote:
"No one comes to the Father but through Me."
These words are found only in the Gospel of John, the youngest of the four Gospels, written just as the first century was turning to the second. It is the only Gospel that, on a literal reading at least, appears to equate Jesus with God. It is very doubtful that the historical Jesus ever spoke like this.

I think these words, however, have a more esoteric meaning. As the Christ, Jesus is saying that we too must achieve Christhood in order to truly know God.

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Paul did not believe in a physical resurrection either for Jesus or for us--although he definitely believed in an afterlife. He tells us that the "body" that is resurrected is a spiritual one and that flesh and bone cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

Dantalion · Post by **Dantalion** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:38 pm

olavisjo wrote: .
Allahakbar wrote: Comprehension seems to be a general problem with theists, but maybe not. Where did you see the claim that people were identical. The question was are there any two people who understand "the word of god" identically? It's the word of god after all.
If you can find two identical people then yes they will understand "the word of god" identically. Else they will see it slightly differently. That is just human nature.

I'm pretty sure you and I understand 'the earth revolves around the sun' identically, or 1+1=2.
A perfect being's message should be, quite hard to misinterpret, me thinks.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:49 pm

Christians don't depend upon proof for their convictions so as to be in total and complete harmony with each other, they depend upon faith, the base of their HOPE in unproven things, Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is substance in what we hope for and conviction about what we do not see.

Faith has the unique quality to fine tune every person's decisions about reality, what they HOPE the truth about GOD and salvation really is. Just as every person's hopes are slightly different so is their faith. Once your faith is established, it becomes the filter for all later decisions about the meaning of both reality and scripture.

Thus in a faith based system exact congruity of belief is never going to happen. May I remind that even in the 'exact' disciplines of math and science there is often no exactitude of agreement?

Peace, Ted

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:18 pm

No two Christians interpret scripture the same way because let's face it, the Holy Spirit it either incompetent or simply doesn't exist. If it did, it would bring unity within the church. But instead we have thousands and thousands of different cults and denominations all who believe their interpretation of scripture is correct.

Here's my take on it:

Ineffective Holy Spirit

Dantalion · Post by **Dantalion** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:54 am

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

Exact sciences don't have 1000 denominations though.
And I respect your point about 'faith', but that also puts you de facto in the wishful thinking department, not on the side of those who value reason and logic OVER faith.

Allahakbar · Post by **Allahakbar** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:39 am

ttruscott wrote: Christians don't depend upon proof for their convictions so as to be in total and complete harmony with each other, they depend upon faith, the base of their HOPE in unproven things, Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is substance in what we hope for and conviction about what we do not see.

Faith has the unique quality to fine tune every person's decisions about reality, what they HOPE the truth about GOD and salvation really is. Just as every person's hopes are slightly different so is their faith. Once your faith is established, it becomes the filter for all later decisions about the meaning of both reality and scripture.

Thus in a faith based system exact congruity of belief is never going to happen. May I remind that even in the 'exact' disciplines of math and science there is often no exactitude of agreement?

Peace, Ted

Am I discussing faith? I wouldn't have thought so. The bible is the word of god and no two people understand it the same way. That says more about your gods capacities that it does about mans capacities. I feel confident in claiming that thousand of people understand the Harry Potter books identically. I don't think J K Rowling claims omnipotence.

A Troubled Man · Post by **A Troubled Man** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:22 pm

ttruscott wrote: Christians don't depend upon proof for their convictions so as to be in total and complete harmony with each other

They don't? Odd. Isn't that exactly what Jesus teaches us to do? To be in harmony with one another through Christianity? Shouldn't Christianity be just one harmonious organization?

Faith has the unique quality to fine tune every person's decisions about reality

Reality, on the other hand, has the unique quality of dispelling our faith based decisions about it, often with the force of a sledgehammer. That is why we must turn to science when discussing reality and discard all faith based bias.

Just as every person's hopes are slightly different so is their faith. Once your faith is established, it becomes the filter for all later decisions about the meaning of both reality and scripture.

What you're essentially saying is that religious faith is more about what people WANT to believe as opposed to the what the religion expects them to believe.

Thus in a faith based system exact congruity of belief is never going to happen.

It's a very good thing science doesn't work that way, we'd never understand anything.

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:28 pm

A Troubled Man wrote:
ttruscott wrote: Christians don't depend upon proof for their convictions so as to be in total and complete harmony with each other
They don't? Odd. Isn't that exactly what Jesus teaches us to do? To be in harmony with one another through Christianity? Shouldn't Christianity be just one harmonious organization?

That's definitely what Jesus prayed for. (John 17:20-23) I guess even HIS prayers were futile!