30 Things That Support The Book of Mormon

[GentlyHewStone]

The nature of The Book of Mormon invites us to conclude that, if it actually is an ancient document, then God is real. The book's promise that God will testify to seekers of its truth is therefore reasonable to pursue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHx9cs0syyQ[/url]

[dianaiad]

The nature of The Book of Mormon invites us to conclude that, if it actually is an ancient document, then God is real.

And if Frodo truly owns a magic ring, then his ability to become invisible is real.

This is a somewhat serious debate forum. I don't necessarily mean to say you're out of your depth, but you may want to put a little more thought into your arguments.

Did you watch the video to which the OP is referring?

I haven't had time to do so yet, I'll admit. I'm in a bit of a hurry. However, I'll watch it today and see what the arguments are.

Now, you guys KNOW that I'm a TBM, and that I do indeed believe that the Book of Mormon is really an 'ancient text.' However, I also know that some of the arguments for that can be, er....problematic, even as others are good and simply dismissed because NOT dismissing them is a problem for those who understand the implication of the BoM actually being an ancient text.

I would have preferred that some of those arguments be written here, rather than simply 'referred to,' ..and perhaps this isn't the correct sub-forum, but simply dismissing the OP with disdainful sideswipes?

That's not nice.

Let me look later today.

Hi Diane,
As much as we disagree on virtually everything, I'm pretty confident that we will agree that the linked video does not do justice to your beliefs.

I mean, ultimately it does do justice to them. They are wacky, false, laughable beliefs, and the video accurately portrays them as wacky, false and laughable, but there are several techniques of obfuscation and pseudo logic that can be used to camouflage bogus arguments, which the video simply fails to employ.

I much prefer to debate religion with people such as yourself, since you do sometimes make semi-cogent arguments which take a little bit of effort to decode and to locate the flaw.

Actually, from the above I get the feeling that you didn't actually look at the video.

Some of the arguments in it ARE problematic, at least to someone looking at actual physical evidence. I have a problem with the 'Joseph Smith would have..." type statements, since they are arguments, not evidence. However, there are a few interesting things.....

[dianaiad]

Can you please quote the specific text you're referring to?

I apologize, but I'm not as well versed in the BoM as I am in other religious texts.

I'll be glad to. Give me a bit, because I want to do this justice, and I'm not having an absolutely great day today.

Let's see....I'll go look at the chiasmus thing, and the trek, present the argument, and you come up with a reasonable alternative explanation that does not involve 'hey, this is an ancient text?"

Not that it's not possible, obviously. I would just like to see what it might be.

I'll try to get to it today. If not, look for it tomorrow sometime.

[no evidence no belief]

Can you please quote the specific text you're referring to?

I apologize, but I'm not as well versed in the BoM as I am in other religious texts.

I'll be glad to. Give me a bit, because I want to do this justice, and I'm not having an absolutely great day today.

Let's see....I'll go look at the chiasmus thing, and the trek, present the argument, and you come up with a reasonable alternative explanation that does not involve 'hey, this is an ancient text?"

Not that it's not possible, obviously. I would just like to see what it might be.

I'll try to get to it today. If not, look for it tomorrow sometime.

Sounds good. If you post it and I don't respond, please PM, as I tend to lose track of which thread conversations where happening on.

[JoeyKnothead]

30 Things that support the book of Mormon?

There's nineteen minutes, thirty three seconds and five years of marriage I wasted my life on.

Don't it beat all there's thirty right good reasons to think the Book of Mormon is the be all and end all of all human productivity, but, "And there He sits," ain't one of 'em.


I've got a picture disc of Dark Side of the Moon I wouldn't take a plate of gravy and biscuits for, heaped up high, and the gravy spilling out on the table cloth the old lady done washed, and now I'm in trouble for that too. I dare say I still ain't no Prophet for it.

But the baby sitting there trying to say, "Wronger'n a barrow at a porcine orgy" is hilarity on the scale of any literary epic that may come to mind.

"Plausible", no matter how proud ya are for it, should not it ever be confused with fact.

[Danmark]

Actually, from the above I get the feeling that you didn't actually look at the video.

Some of the arguments in it ARE problematic, at least to someone looking at actual physical evidence. I have a problem with the 'Joseph Smith would have..." type statements, since they are arguments, not evidence. However, there are a few interesting things.....

Why would anyone bother to look at a lengthy video of anything unless there is some supporting argument for its validity or originality? This type of thing by Hewnrockswhat'shisname is just spam, not argument

[GentlyHewStone]

Thanks for the spirited discussion so far, all! Diane is doing an excellent job of saying all the things that I would have!

So can any of you refute the actual claims and explain the evidence offered in the video? I'm not sure you watched it, or you would see the irony that your comments create in light of 17:59-18:22. But hey, if you're not open to examining and evaluating these materials, no hard feelings. Have a great day!

[Danmark]

Thanks for the spirited discussion so far, all! Diane is doing an excellent job of saying all the things that I would have!

So can any of you refute the actual claims and explain the evidence offered in the video? I'm not sure you watched it, or you would see the irony that your comments create in light of 17:59-18:22. But hey, if you're not open to examining and evaluating these materials, no hard feelings. Have a great day!

Have you examined the 5 episodes of mormon leaks?
http://mormonleaks.com/library/

... or defended the Book of Abraham fraud that exposes Joseph Smith as a forger?

Address these problems, the DNA and archeological evidence that refutes the BoM, then maybe someone will be willing to fuss with your efforts.

We really don't have time to bother with obvious fantasies like astrology, phrenology, numerology or the host of ridiculous religious frauds that have come and gone over the Centuries.

[JoeyKnothead]

Thanks for the spirited discussion so far, all! Diane is doing an excellent job of saying all the things that I would have!

So can any of you refute the actual claims and explain the evidence offered in the video? I'm not sure you watched it, or you would see the irony that your comments create in light of 17:59-18:22. But hey, if you're not open to examining and evaluating these materials, no hard feelings. Have a great day!

Can any of y'all actually refute any of the claims there in that video I can't show has them any of 'em any truth to it?

I propose it's a dowager of a man who'd rely on the arguments of others in order to present his own.

[no evidence no belief]

Thanks for the spirited discussion so far, all! Diane is doing an excellent job of saying all the things that I would have!

So can any of you refute the actual claims and explain the evidence offered in the video? I'm not sure you watched it, or you would see the irony that your comments create in light of 17:59-18:22. But hey, if you're not open to examining and evaluating these materials, no hard feelings. Have a great day!

Dude, there is no spirited discussion going on. Even Diane, the only mormon in here, has serious reservations about several of your arguments. None of the theists are supporting any of your views. None of the atheists are having a spirited discussion with you.

We're all just chuckling and shaking our heads in disbelief at the stones it must take to bring such a pathetic video to a serious debate forum.

If you would like to redeem yourself in the eyes of the Lord, please provide a SPECIFIC QUOTE from the BoM that demonstrates it's an ancient text.

Don't say ANYTHING. Just provide the quote.

[dianaiad]

30 Things that support the book of Mormon?

There's nineteen minutes, thirty three seconds and five years of marriage I wasted my life on.

Don't it beat all there's thirty right good reasons to think the Book of Mormon is the be all and end all of all human productivity, but, "And there He sits," ain't one of 'em.


I've got a picture disc of Dark Side of the Moon I wouldn't take a plate of gravy and biscuits for, heaped up high, and the gravy spilling out on the table cloth the old lady done washed, and now I'm in trouble for that too. I dare say I still ain't no Prophet for it.

But the baby sitting there trying to say, "Wronger'n a barrow at a porcine orgy" is hilarity on the scale of any literary epic that may come to mind.

"Plausible", no matter how proud ya are for it, should not it ever be confused with fact.

...and all the 'good ol' boy' disparaging remarks you pass along here don't address ANY of the items in that video, Joey.

Now, true, many of them, to be fair to everybody, aren't good reasons to figure that the BoM is scripture, or even 'ancient text.'

However, some are.

There are a FEW things mentioned in there that really are difficult to deal with. Simply dismissing them with a 'well, it doesn't matter whether you have to twist like an F4 in order to avoid considering the possibility, the BoM CAN'T be an ancient text because, well, if it's an ancient text I'm going to have to deal with the ramifications of what that might actually mean, and I'm NOT going there," isn't going to cut it.