Salvation from what?

[Peter]

Christians are always going on about salvation and how I should want it. Exactly what threat do I want salvation from and who or what is the source of this threat? Is this threat real or imagined? Can I talk to someone who has suffered by ignoring this threat? Maybe I'm atheist simply because nobody has been able to convince me a real threat exists. So convince me.

[ten10ths]

...

Fact is, if God is real and can do anything, there would be no need for salvation because there would be nothing to be saved from.

...

Here is where you miss the mark: "if God is real and can do anything" Even if HE is real HE cannot do anything a pagan lie based on Greek philosophy, not HIS self revelation. HE cannot do evil, HE cannot go against HIS promises and HE cannot go against HIS own methods for achieving HIS goals.

In short:
HIS goal is a heaven of pure loving holiness shared with HIS creation. HIS method was to find those who wanted to share that with HIM by their free will, and that meant HE had to allow the option of a rejection of HIM, leading to the necessity of a salvation from that decision.

Peace, Ted

I don't miss the mark. Why? Because your opinion of my beliefs are irrelevent. In other words, I don't need to meet to your expectation of anything.
If God is possible of anything, that means anything. If He's not, then He's not much of a god at all really. If I'm going to worship a god, it'd better be a GOD, not some impotent thing floating in the ether.
If that's what some others want to worship - go for it. I prefer to believe in something bigger than that.

[higgy1911]

I have always found the salvation concept to be pretty unattractive. I don't believe in the concept of sins being washed away. Once we have done something it can not be undone and neither can the consequences. God can forgive if he wishes I suppose, just as we can forgive each other, and we can elect not to penalize people for their actions, as I suppose God can, but we cannot remove the responsibility that an individual has for his thoughts and actions.
Salvation to me is just man trying to find away to avoid responsibility for his actions.

[Peter]

Christians are always going on about salvation and how I should want it. Exactly what threat do I want salvation from and who or what is the source of this threat? Is this threat real or imagined? Can I talk to someone who has suffered by ignoring this threat? Maybe I'm atheist simply because nobody has been able to convince me a real threat exists. So convince me.

I don't consider it to be my job to convince you and doubt if it is even possible. Such things are reserved for GOD…

Thanks Ted, as I said, God isn't doing his job.

Our salvation is both a salvation from our enslaving addiction to evil AND HIS necessary judgment upon those who cannot have their addiction broken, making their banishment a necessity.

Peace, Ted

I'm not addicted to evil. Oh, maybe that's why I don't need salvation. Yes, that must be it. Only those addicted to evil believe in salvation from eternal punishment. Hmmm, makes sense.

[Peter]

Christians are always going on about salvation and how I should want it. Exactly what threat do I want salvation from and who or what is the source of this threat?

The salvation is from death that comes for those who are unrighteous (sinful).

I have no problem being dead. I was dead for billions of years and it didn't seem to bother me at all.

If person lives in sin (is Godless and unrighteous) he will die permanently. But if unrighteous person receives the words that Jesus told, he can have sins forgiven, repent and become righteous.

But I'm godless and righteous. Am I living in sin simply for not believing in a god?
That doesn't seem very… righteous, especially for a god.

[Peter]

I have always found the salvation concept to be pretty unattractive. I don't believe in the concept of sins being washed away. Once we have done something it can not be undone and neither can the consequences. God can forgive if he wishes I suppose, just as we can forgive each other, and we can elect not to penalize people for their actions, as I suppose God can, but we cannot remove the responsibility that an individual has for his thoughts and actions.
Salvation to me is just man trying to find away to avoid responsibility for his actions.

I agree and scapegoating another man for your sins is positively evil!

[Wootah]

Christians are always going on about salvation and how I should want it. Exactly what threat do I want salvation from and who or what is the source of this threat? Is this threat real or imagined? Can I talk to someone who has suffered by ignoring this threat? Maybe I'm atheist simply because nobody has been able to convince me a real threat exists. So convince me.

I think you can understand salvation and still not believe.

Christianity preaches salvation from death.

You may feel the need to work hard, to get the best job, to do the best for your family and yet you also know you will die and that in the end it is all for nothing. One day. It will be all for nothing. Death will engulf it all.

You have a choice :
- to ignore the reality of death or
- be depressed by it or
- worse embrace it or
- live.

During the course of your life you will make decisions that lean towards death or towards life. For instance you might withhold something from someone else because you fear death and might need it for yourself. Or you might give something to someone else and show that you value life, even at the risk of your own.

However this process of living - risking your own life for others - is foolish. All sacrifice is embarrassing foolishness without the cross.

And so in order to live you need Christianity. Option 4 is only real if Christ is real and salvation from death is only real if Christ is real. If Christ is not real your options are death.

For sacrifice to mean anything other than foolishness we need Christ to be real. And if Christ is real then Christianity offers salvation from death.

[FarWanderer]

For sacrifice to mean anything other than foolishness we need Christ to be real. And if Christ is real then Christianity offers salvation from death.

The "sacrifice" you speak of isn't even sacrifice. How can one even call something sacrifice if it's done entirely for their own salvation?

I'd rather be a "fool".

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 17 by FarWanderer]

I am not sure I understand you.

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to Wootah]

I'm saying there's no such thing as sacrifice in your worldview, because risking your mortal life is no sacrifice if by doing it you gain an immortal life.

[Peter]

Christians are always going on about salvation and how I should want it. Exactly what threat do I want salvation from and who or what is the source of this threat? Is this threat real or imagined? Can I talk to someone who has suffered by ignoring this threat? Maybe I'm atheist simply because nobody has been able to convince me a real threat exists. So convince me.

I think you can understand salvation and still not believe.

Christianity preaches salvation from death.

You may feel the need to work hard, to get the best job, to do the best for your family and yet you also know you will die and that in the end it is all for nothing. One day. It will be all for nothing. Death will engulf it all.

Wow, how incredibly selfish! You believe that all the work you do in this life is for nothing unless you can benefit from it in some imaginary afterlife? You can't really mean that.

I live my life for others as much as for myself. I do my best for my wife, children, relatives, friends and strangers not just for today(because it makes me feel good) but for when I'd dead and gone. The good I do in this world will outlive me and that's all I need to know.