Can Christians prove most gods don't exist?

[Artie]

In the thread "Justify the belief that gods do not exist" dianaiad says and I quote: "The challenge from me...and indeed, from the title of the post, was to prove that gods do not exist."

Strong atheists believe that gods do not exist. The challenge from me is for dianaiad and other Christians to prove that the vast majority of gods don't exist.

Can you do that?

[Artie]

So I doubt very much that a Christian would be able to prove the existence of a Christian God to anyone else because of this fundamental difference in opinion as to what proof actually means. Maybe if we all agree what proof would be acceptable for all parties we can go from there?

Yes. There's a fundamental difference between people of faith and rationalists. Many strong atheists are rationalists.

"Faith and rationality are two modes of belief that exist in varying degrees of conflict or compatibility. Rationality is belief based on reason or evidence. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority. The word faith generally refers to a belief that is held with lack of, in spite of or against reason and evidence." https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve ... ality.html

Why would theists ask rational atheists for "proof" of the non-existence of gods? Do they expect atheists to give them a revelation where the theists suddenly realize there are no gods? How would we "inspire" them to believe there are no gods? Which authority would they believe if he told them there are no gods?

[Artie]

Scientific tests I suppose would be a start.

See post 11. They believe in revelation, inspiration or authority. We would have to give them a "revelation", "inspire" them or provide an authority they would believe in.

[Artie]

I contend that spiritual things cannot be proven except by personal experience which is not accepted as proof by others.

Could you hypothetically have a personal experience totally convincing you that there are no gods?

[Wordleymaster1]

Scientific tests I suppose would be a start.

See post 11. They believe in revelation, inspiration or authority. We would have to give them a "revelation", "inspire" them or provide an authority they would believe in.

Yup. It's not possible. It's easier to believe in something that can't be tested for than something that can be tested for that's goes against your beliefs.

[dianaiad]

In the thread "Justify the belief that gods do not exist" dianaiad says and I quote: "The challenge from me...and indeed, from the title of the post, was to prove that gods do not exist."

Strong atheists believe that gods do not exist. The challenge from me is for dianaiad and other Christians to prove that the vast majority of gods don't exist.

Can you do that?

Prove it?

No...but for most theists the 'proof,' (good enough for themselves, if not for anybody else) is a doctrine of exclusion. If the description of deity that I believe to be true is true, it doesn't leave any room for any other description of deity to be true.

Or, in a universe that was created by the creator God in which I believe, where is there room for Zeus?

But then, I've never pretended to be able to prove the existence of deity at all, not to anybody else. Everybody has to find his or her own beliefs in that matter.

YOU, Artie, in that other thread, were sort of using the doctrine of exclusion, a bit, when you claimed that your belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats (though any biologist or anthropologist would, I think, cringe at this) proves that there is then no room for God.

That's fine for you.

But it's not proof....oh, and just as a btw...if your coming up with an alternative explanation for human morality is justification enough to dismiss the possibility of deity, then any theist's belief in his or her description of deity is certainly justification enough to not believe in any other description of deity.

My point here is that neither point of view is proof, either way. Oh, and now you are doing a 'tu quoque' sort of thing.

You know, the ''he does it too!" response. The problem is, it doesn't much matter how many others 'do it too." That doesn't mean you don't do it. Too.

Finally, and here's the real kicker for you and that 'other' thread: having an alternative theory for the appearance of human morals and ethics does not in any way prove that there is no god.

Shoot, I'm a believer in the Big Bang, "old earth" and evolution. That doesn't eliminate my belief in a divine creator.

[Artie]

YOU, Artie, in that other thread, were sort of using the doctrine of exclusion, a bit, when you claimed that your belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats (though any biologist or anthropologist would, I think, cringe at this) proves that there is then no room for God.

I don't remember stating that it "proves that there is then no room for God". Can you please quote the passage and provide the link?

Finally, and here's the real kicker for you and that 'other' thread: having an alternative theory for the appearance of human morals and ethics does not in any way prove that there is no god.

I don't remember having said that it proves that there is no god. Can you please quote and link?

[dianaiad]

YOU, Artie, in that other thread, were sort of using the doctrine of exclusion, a bit, when you claimed that your belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats (though any biologist or anthropologist would, I think, cringe at this) proves that there is then no room for God.

I don't remember stating that it "proves that there is then no room for God". Can you please quote the passage and provide the link?

Artie.

Your argument was in the 'Justify the beliefs that no gods exist." What, were you simply picking a topic at random, and your post was completely unrelated to the OP, which asked that people come up with justifications for the belief that no gods exist?

I mean, if that's not what you were attempting to do, then why did you put it in that thread?

Finally, and here's the real kicker for you and that 'other' thread: having an alternative theory for the appearance of human morals and ethics does not in any way prove that there is no god.

I don't remember having said that it proves that there is no god. Can you please quote and link?

Artie, if that's not what you were attempting to do, then you should have made your argument in a different thread.

[Artie]

Artie, if that's not what you were attempting to do, then you should have made your argument in a different thread.

You said and I quote: "when you claimed that your belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats (though any biologist or anthropologist would, I think, cringe at this) proves that there is then no room for God." I don't remember claiming that my belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats proves that there is then no room for God. Please quote and link to where I claimed this.

[Zzyzx]

.
A fundamental chore, it would seem to me, is for anyone to define, describe and identify the "gods" that they attempt to prove or disprove.

I have not, for instance, encountered a description / definition / identification of the bible God beyond platitudes such as "God is love", "God created the universe", "God is omniscient and omnipotent" -- which do NOT say what the "god" actually IS.

"God is spirit" does no more toward clarification. Ancient unverified tales about "gods" do not provide substantiation of any claims.

Perhaps Ignosticism (not Agnosticism) is the most rational theistic position (followed, perhaps by Agnosticism).

[dianaiad]

Artie, if that's not what you were attempting to do, then you should have made your argument in a different thread.

You said and I quote: "when you claimed that your belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats (though any biologist or anthropologist would, I think, cringe at this) proves that there is then no room for God." I don't remember claiming that my belief that morals and ethics are hardwired and evolved in us just like they are in vampire bats proves that there is then no room for God. Please quote and link to where I claimed this.

Artie, are you having fun?

You said this when you made that argument; that morals and ethics evolved and are akin to the reciprocity seen in vampire bates in the thread about justifying the belief that there are no gods.

That's where you said this. It was written as a reason to justify the belief that there are no gods.

It is ironic indeed, especially given your unwillingness to support your contention that the 'golden rule' existed before, and apart from, any religion, in humans.

You still haven't done that. So...ordinarily I would say 'you first,' but I'm too late, given that I have already provided the substantiation you demand.

Care to provide yours?