Jesus teaching on hell

[Elijah John]

Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-moon ... lp00000592

The article basically holds that hell is "outer darkness" and is reserved for the Pharasees in Jesus teaching, and that Jesus cares more about doing good than believing right, according to his parables.

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

[Wordleymaster1]

Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-moon ... lp00000592

The article basically holds that hell is "outer darkness" and is reserved for the Pharasees in Jesus teaching, and that Jesus cares more about doing good than believing right, according to his parables.

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

Isn't hell something used to scare people? "Do this or this very bad thing will happen!!"
I don't see it as anything other than that based on my upbringing and culture background.

[dianaiad]

Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-moon ... lp00000592

The article basically holds that hell is "outer darkness" and is reserved for the Pharasees in Jesus teaching, and that Jesus cares more about doing good than believing right, according to his parables.

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

Every theist has his or her idea of 'hell,' Christian or not.

Mine...well, Mormons...have a slightly different take on the whole idea. "Outer Darkness" is more-than-hell. It is the absolute absence of God, His influence or His presence. Complete 'other,' and we believe that those who go there choose to do so, deliberately.

As in...they pretty much tell the Holy Ghost, in absolute knowledge of what they are doing (and you know me; 'absolute knowledge' is knowing something to the point that there isn't any possibility at all of being wrong), where to shove it. They want nothing to do with any of it. They CHOOSE to go. Nobody 'puts' them there or 'sends' them there. They, in full understanding of what they are doing, go there because that's what they want.

Everybody else goes to a 'heaven,' in that there is no form of afterlife, we believe, that isn't 'better' than here.

Joseph Smith is purported to have said (though I think it may be apocryphal, since we can't really pin the quote down) that if we could see 'what lay beyond the veil" that thousands would commit suicide to get there.

We do believe that the place murderers, liars, etc. go is, since it is a 'glory of heaven' pretty nice, and only 'hell' in comparison to the rest of heaven. Certainly no lake of fire and brimstone.

It's just that the place that the honest of heart go to is nicer...and no, you don't need to be a Mormon to get there.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 12 by dianaiad]

Just curious, what then is the incentive for Mormons to evangelize?

For Roman Catholics, (who no longer believe one need to be Catholic to be saved) it is my understanding that their evangelization efforts are (from their perspective) for the purposes of bringing folks to the "fullness of the Truth", and to help people with other forms of works of mercy, corporal and spiritual.

[ThePainefulTruth]

[Replying to post 12 by dianaiad]

Just curious, what then is the incentive for Mormons to evangelize?

For Roman Catholics, (who no longer believe one need to be Catholic to be saved) it is my understanding that their evangelization efforts are (from their perspective) for the purposes of bringing folks to the "fullness of the Truth", and to help people with other forms of works of mercy, corporal and spiritual.

Isn't Truth it's own incentive for evangelization?....not that Mormons, Catholics or any revealed religion possess it necessarily. Just sayin' that in the case of hell, wouldn't the outer darkness/separation from God (Truth) lead one to judge oneself to be suited for only option, oblivion? I must say, at least in that respect, Mormons are much closer to the Truth than the other revealed competition--particularly in the aspect that we judge ourselves. What, you may ask, would keep them/us from continuing to lie to ourselves? Easy, the undeniable, pervasive from the mega-infinite to the micro-infinite, light of Truth.

[1213]

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

Hell is:

They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15

(By actions it can be judged is person righteous of not Mat. 7:16-19)

A place where body and soul can be destroyed.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

For whom it is reserved for:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire.
Mat. 7:16-19

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, [The word for "sorcerers" here also includes users of potions and drugs.] idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Rev. 21:8

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

I think same than when he was last time here, hypocrites.

Jesus said to them, "Take heed and beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Matt. 16:6

" the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Luke 12:1

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and unrighteousness. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the platter, that the outside of it may become clean also.
Matthew 23:25-26

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:20

I think modern world has lot of similar hypocrite people as those Pharisees and Sadducees were.

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matt. 7:21

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 12 by dianaiad]

Just curious, what then is the incentive for Mormons to evangelize?

For Roman Catholics, (who no longer believe one need to be Catholic to be saved) it is my understanding that their evangelization efforts are (from their perspective) for the purposes of bringing folks to the "fullness of the Truth", and to help people with other forms of works of mercy, corporal and spiritual.

What is the motive for atheists who post here to want to get others to believe (or not believe) as they do?

Because we think we are right.

.........and just because we don't believe people are going to a hellfire and brimstone eternal torture if they aren't us, we do believe that those who understand, appreciate and live the gospel have an advantage.

You know, the way, if you want someone to talk to in regard to cancer, you go to an oncologist, not a high school dropout?

As well, even though all of 'em are 'heavens,' as in, good places to be, some are better than others. More. More stuff (and ability) to learn. You know, more.

[Wordleymaster1]

[Replying to post 16 by dianaiad]

What is the motive for atheists who post here to want to get others to believe (or not believe) as they do?

Is that THE motive for these guys? Seems there would be other motives as well - or none at all. Maybe it's just a 'time killer'. Or maybe they like to hype up the zealots? Claim 'motives' for people other than yourself seems dangerous and slightly arrogant to me. But that's just me

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 16 by dianaiad]

What is the motive for atheists who post here to want to get others to believe (or not believe) as they do?

Is that THE motive for these guys? Seems there would be other motives as well - or none at all. Maybe it's just a 'time killer'. Or maybe they like to hype up the zealots? Claim 'motives' for people other than yourself seems dangerous and slightly arrogant to me. But that's just me

Moderator Comment

Please review the Rules.
Hi Wordleymaster,

* Claim 'motives' for people other than yourself seems dangerous and slightly arrogant to me.

Please stop referring to other posters. You are on a final warning already and taking up way too much moderation time for a new forum member.


______________

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