What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

[Justin108]

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 6 by Peds nurse]

He saved us from eternal condemnation.

So who is doing the eternal condemnating?

Jesus saved us from eternal condemnation, for those who so choose to be saved.

[Peds nurse]

Problems I see with the story of the sacrifice of Jesus:

1) It was not necessary. If God is omnipotent, he does not have to sacrifice Jesus, or do anything else he doesn't want to.

This is very true. He didn't have to send his son to die on the cross. He did though because he loves his people, and in doing so, he has saved the lives of many.

2) Jesus did not actually take the punishment of a single person, let alone all of them. The punishment for sinning is going to hell for eternity - Jesus did not do this.

He died, he was human...he sacrificed his life...The power isn't in going to hell, the power was in and through the blood of Jesus. He defeated Hell when He died on that cross.

3) Was Jesus' death a good thing? or a bad thing? Christians seem very confused about this.

It is a very wonderful thing that we are not condemned, and that we have victory over death.

4) One person taking the punishment of another is not just or logical.

Of course it isn't just, which is why it is a sacrifice. Dictionary definition: An act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.

5) There is no reason why God would logically create a situation wherein he HAD to sacrifice his son.

God gave us freedom, and in that freedom we are given choices. The fall of man was the beginning of sin..which came from disobedience.

6) Jesus supposedly said the only way to heaven was through him. Are the people who were born and died before Jesus just sent to hell with no chance?

No, because Abraham, Elisha, Moses, and Samuel were with God..you can find this in the Old Testament, as well as the new.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to Peds nurse]

Yeah I get that what I am asking is who is Doing the condemning.

This is very true. He didn't have to send his son to die on the cross. He did though because he loves his people, and in doing so, he has saved the lives of many.

Save them from what?

[Zzyzx]

.

He died, he was human...he sacrificed his life...The power isn't in going to hell, the power was in and through the blood of Jesus. He defeated Hell when He died on that cross.

People die. Some die painfully, some are martyrs, some die for others. What is unique about any of that?

[FinalEnigma]

Problems I see with the story of the sacrifice of Jesus:

1) It was not necessary. If God is omnipotent, he does not have to sacrifice Jesus, or do anything else he doesn't want to.

This is very true. He didn't have to send his son to die on the cross. He did though because he loves his people, and in doing so, he has saved the lives of many.

okay, but why not pick a method that didn't involve the needless torture and death of your own son?

2) Jesus did not actually take the punishment of a single person, let alone all of them. The punishment for sinning is going to hell for eternity - Jesus did not do this.

He died, he was human...he sacrificed his life...The power isn't in going to hell, the power was in and through the blood of Jesus. He defeated Hell when He died on that cross.

how did dying on the cross defeat hell?

3) Was Jesus' death a good thing? or a bad thing? Christians seem very confused about this.

It is a very wonderful thing that we are not condemned, and that we have victory over death.

That doesn't answer the question. are the Romans heroes for executing Jesus, because they saved so many people by doing so?

4) One person taking the punishment of another is not just or logical.

Of course it isn't just, which is why it is a sacrifice. Dictionary definition: An act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.

I don't see the connection here. why does not being just cause something to be a sacrifice? this does not seem to follow.

5) There is no reason why God would logically create a situation wherein he HAD to sacrifice his son.

God gave us freedom, and in that freedom we are given choices. The fall of man was the beginning of sin..which came from disobedience.

said disobedience, btw, which was not a sin, because they had no knowledge of good and evil until after they had done it.

6) Jesus supposedly said the only way to heaven was through him. Are the people who were born and died before Jesus just sent to hell with no chance?

No, because Abraham, Elisha, Moses, and Samuel were with God..you can find this in the Old Testament, as well as the new.

So how did they get there, if the only way to heaven is through Jesus?

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 13 by DanieltheDragon]

Mr. Daniel, I am really not sure what you are asking. Are you fishing for a certain answer? Do you want me to say that God condemns people to Hell? I could say that...but it isn't true. We choose whom we will serve. (I know that opens a huge can of worms).

[Peds nurse]

.

He died, he was human...he sacrificed his life...The power isn't in going to hell, the power was in and through the blood of Jesus. He defeated Hell when He died on that cross.

People die. Some die painfully, some are martyrs, some die for others. What is unique about any of that?

Always a pleasure Mr. Z!!!

I agree with all the above. What makes Jesus's death unique, is that his death saved the entire world from eternal death. His death, gave us life.

[Provoker]

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?

You are thinking in the right direction Justin:
God gave no laws from Adam to Moses, and no sin was charged during that time. That shows you how unconcerned God was about what men did:-)
So the question has to be; why did God suddenly decide to make laws in Moses' day? Because the children of Israel were establishing God's chosen nation, and they had promised God that they would become the great everlasting nation which will fulfill God's everlasting, unconditional gospel promise. God gave His chosen nation ten laws which, if followed as a national standard, would make any nation great and everlasting. IOW, God gave no laws to individuals, but only to a nation to help it fulfill His gospel promise. God's everlasting, unconditional, gospel promise is far more important than what you and I do on our own time:-)
The wages of national sin is national death. Israel failed to keep God's law(the ten), became divided against itself, and died a national death. Aha, but the gift of God is everlasting life....When Israel(the coming kingdom) is resurrected from the dead, God will graciously make a new covenant with it, whereby He will write His law(the 10) on all the hearts of Israel. Do you see it??? Resurrected Israel will never break God's law again because Israelites will do by nature the things contained in God's law. Resurrected Israel will never again break God's law, it will never again become divided against itself, and it will go on to become the great everlasting nation/kingdom it was chosen to become.
There you have it. No God given laws for any individual. Only to a nation which has not existed for 3000 years, but will rise from the dead to fulfill God's gospel promise, as soon as there is enough people with faith in God's gospel, to occupy all the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt.
What do you think?

[Zzyzx]

.

God gave no laws from Adam to Moses, and no sin was charged during that time. That shows you how unconcerned God was about what men did.

So the question has to be; why did God suddenly decide to make laws in Moses' day? Because the children of Israel were establishing God's chosen nation, and they had promised God that they would become the great everlasting nation which will fulfill God's everlasting, unconditional gospel promise. God gave His chosen nation ten laws which, if followed as a national standard, would make any nation great and everlasting. IOW, God gave no laws to individuals, but only to a nation to help it fulfill His gospel promise. God's everlasting, unconditional, gospel promise is far more important than what you and I do on our own time

Would it not be just as reasonable, or more so, to say that there were no laws from God and that MEN invented various laws for their own purposes, crediting them to God to add authority and credibility in the eyes of believers?

What indicates that God made any laws? Someone said so? People believe so? It was written by people promoting religion?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 13 by DanieltheDragon]

Mr. Daniel, I am really not sure what you are asking. Are you fishing for a certain answer? Do you want me to say that God condemns people to Hell? I could say that...but it isn't true. We choose whom we will serve. (I know that opens a huge can of worms).

The answer doesn't have to be God there is a whole variety of faiths and beliefs in Christendom, I would not assume that is your answer. For some it might be, if there is a condemnation taking place then someone is doing the condemnating. If Jesus is saving us from this condemnation who is the condemnator in your opinion?

If it is not god condemning us to hell who is?

Who is doing the condemnation and who is Jesus saving us from?

Why is the death of Jesus the only way to save people?

Could god not save people any other way?