Does he have a valid point?

[Zzyzx]

.

Bill Maher:
"When I hear from people that religion doesn't hurt anything, I say really? Well besides wars, the crusades, the inquisitions, 9-11, ethnic cleansing, the suppression of women, the suppression of homosexuals, fatwas, honor killings, suicide bombings, arranged marriages to minors, human sacrifice, burning witches, and systematic sex with children, I have a few little quibbles. And I forgot blowing up girl schools in Afghanistan."

Some say "The good outweighs the bad." If so what is that weighty good?

Many say "That is just the other religions." Is that true?

[Dropship]

Of Bill Maher's list, these (at least) can be laid at the Christian's door: the crusades, the inquisitions, ethnic cleansing, the suppression of women, the suppression of homosexuals, arranged marriages to minors, burning witches, and systematic sex with children.

What makes you think the people who do that are true Christians?
For example Hitler liked to put it around that he was a Christian, but if he truly was one, I'm Mary Poppins..



Likewise every German soldier liked to think they were good guys-

[Bust Nak]

Then I am sure you will agree and won't distance yourself from the fact that the ideology of evolution killed the most people last century. Let alone the Holocaust of abortion taking place today.

I will not. 1) Evolution is descriptive and not prescriptive. 2) There is no argument that the holocaust is the misuse of evolution; the same cannot be said for some of the crime listed in the OP as the justification come straight out of the Bible.

[DanieltheDragon]

i don't think it has as much to do with religions as it does human nature. After all who created religions in the first place? Who put in the rules into the bible or the Qur'an? If you look through the course of human history before agriculture we were mostly nomads eking out an life in small traveling groups. Other groups posed a threat and to survive we developed an in group/out group social structure that is very much evident today. The in group is safe the out group is a threat. We see this in politics we see this in religion we see this in our basic social structures. It can at least account for this group

the crusades, the inquisitions, ethnic cleansing, burning witches,the suppression of homosexuals

.

the suppression of women

This probably has more to do with consolidating mating rights as it does anything else. Taking choice away from women increases the odds for the men in the in group to get the mates they want especially for those higher in the power structure.

arranged marriages to minors, and systematic sex with children.

Pedophilia is a problem throughout the world it makes sense that religions written a millennia ago would not know any better if women are already being treated as chattel.

The point is it doesn't take religion to do this but religion is oft wrapped around the ideals and viewpoints of those promoting it. In essence it is a reflection of the cultures that write them. This is more of an inditement on human history than it is of religions.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 8 by Zzyzx]

Then I am sure you will agree and won't distance yourself from the fact that the ideology of evolution killed the most people last century. Let alone the Holocaust of abortion taking place today.

??????? there is an ideology surrounding evolution?????

What I will agree on though is that the discovery of evolution and how it effects organisms has led to the greatest medical breakthroughs in history and has in effect saved countless lives over the course of the last century and will continue to do so long after christianity has disappeared from this planet we call earth.

[antonenus]

Which religions was Maher talking about?
Surely he can't include Christianity?
"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" - Jesus of Nazareth (Matt 10:34-35)

[Lion IRC]

.

Bill Maher:

Bill who???? Is he some media celebrity?

..."When I hear from people that religion doesn't hurt anything, I say really?

Oh...great. Bill Whatisname shares Baron Von Munchausen anecdotes about all the
(faceless) people he "hears from" who allegedly tell him stuff - naturally he then proceeds to devastate them with his intellectual superiority. Good one Bill.

I betcha I can beat him in a game of duelling anecdotes. But that's probably because I don't live in his amazing shiny TV world where folks beat a path to my door in order to tell me they think religion is wonderful.

...Well besides wars,

The wars? WW1 and WW2 saw Christians fighting each other. How can THAT be over Christianity? Two Christians fighting over money and power is NOT automatically a 'religious' war - it's the opposite of what their religion teaches.
And WW2 ended (notionally) when someone dropped a device called an atom bomb (invented by physicists) on a city killing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. Lawrence Krauss (a physicist) rants about the biblical slaughter of the Amalekites. But the dead children of Hiroshima and Nagasaki want to know what religion invented the technology which slaughtered them?
Yeah sure, (atheist) physicists want to spend $$$ billions finding water on Mars and life in outer space - meanwhile millions of human lives here on Earth don't have clean drinking water. But go right on ahead Bill Maher, stick it up religion and poison the well by attacking those whose religious charity takes care of people you NEVER hear from.

...the crusades,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they had democracy back then. Kings and Queens and Emperors and Sultans perhaps did fight over territory they deemed spiritually important, and they used conscripted soldiers or mercenaries who may or may not have shared in, or benefited from, their ruler's ambition. So the Crusades are hardly representative of humans desire to fight over religion.

...the inquisitions,

How many died in total?
Now how many of those died on account of their religious belief as opposed to their political belief?
The facts will disappoint Mr Maher.
(The huge irony here is that, just like Torquemada and the Spanish Government, Bill Maher probably also hates religion interfering in the politics of the State)

...9-11,

An attack on America - not on Christianity.

...ethnic cleansing,

Politics.
Nuff said!
If it were religion, Hitler would have struggled with the idea that...there is neither Jew nor gentile, neither slave nor free...we are all one in Christ.

... the suppression of women,

I love it when a man (Bill Maher) insults muslim women by insisting that they couldn't POSSIBLY choose to wear a burka or freely love their Islamic religion. What is it Bill? You think they aren't smart enough to realise?

... the suppression of homosexuals,

Like-minded religious people living in the same constituency or State, tend to give mandates to those who share the same political/moral values. Are the voters of Indonesia supposed to approve gay marriage just because Norwegians do?

...fatwas,

How many thousands of humans have been killed by a 'fatwa' (a legally binding executive order) of the Commander in Chief of the U.S. military?
Now, answer me this fatwa question? Is post-fatwa Salman Rushdie still alive?

... honor killings,

Yep people kill other people for lots of reasons. Cain killed Abel. That's in the bible.
I supposed Bill Maher thinks that's a religious murder too.

...suicide bombings,

Suicide is haram - forbidden - in Islam. So are drugs.
(Many suicide bombers are given drugs beforehand.)
Now you tell me. Is that theologically sound religious doctrine which Bill Maher is using to build his strawman?

... arranged marriages to minors,

Oh, that's precious! Someone trying to draw a line in the sand. Bill Maher, moral campaigner for traditional marriage.
Here's a guy who would try to justify same-sex attraction on the basis of what happens in the animal kingdom yet wilfully ignores the biological reality that many/most females are capable of bearing children well-before they turn 18/21.
Hey Bill, the LGBTQ lobby asserts that teenage boys can decide to come-out. So presumably they can give informed sexual consent. What if they fell in love and wanted to get married Bill???

...human sacrifice,

I think I'm gonna puke in my mouth.
We sacrifice more humans than ever before in the history of the human race.
Abortions as convenient birth control by the MILLIONS!
We let people die as ends-justifies-the-means 'collateral damage' every day. Preventable deaths but too expensive for us to be bothered so we let them be sacrificed.

...burning witches,

Not real witches.
If you burn someone who isn't a witch that's simply murder.
The bible doesn't condone burning people who are not witches.
Now, in the story of Hansel and Gretel there is a real witch who conspires to abduct, murder and cannibalize little children.
If such a crime happened in America that witch would fry!

... and systematic sex with children,

Children can be euthanased in enlightened, libertarian Belgium. They can give consent to their own death. Yes, we don't protect children anywhere near as much as we ought. Let's invade Belgium and put a stop to this disgusting abomination. Who knows, we might even uncover the worlds largest pedophile ring in Belgium too.
In neighbouring Germany pet brothels are legal too. Systematic sex with animals.
Not sure about the religion demography of Europe. I seem to recall its heavily atheist.

... I have a few little quibbles. And I forgot blowing up girl schools in Afghanistan."

Muslims killing Muslims.
Yep - obviously just what Allah wants.

Bill Maher should take aim at the worlds largest religion and see how many people kill for money - Mamon worship. The root of all evil.

But I guess Bill is too gutless to take a swing at the powers and principalities which pay his wages - big advertisers, big media company proprieters, big business whose revenue comes in direct proportion to the seductiveness of materialistic hedonism.

...And the acceptance of slavery, don't forget that one.

Slavery is a function of economic greed.
Does the bible condone greed?

Slavery is the theft of a person's labor without pay.
What does the bible say about stealing?

Do most slave owners love money?
What does the bible say is the root of all evil?

[Dropship]

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" - Jesus of Nazareth (Matt 10:34-35)

Jesus was simply warning of the strife to come if one or more family members decided to follow him instead of the old traditional family religion.
People quickly cottoned on- "Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Peter 1:18)

PS- my late father was a hardcore workaholic, work was his "religion" and he tried to force me to be the same, and when I left school he used to hammer on my bedroom door at the crack of dawn yelling "Come on get out of bed and look for a job, they're crying out for people at the Bostik glue factory!".
But I just thought "Oh stick it!" and turned over and went back to sleep..

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Any belief system can be harmful and helpful. It all depends on the people involved as without people there is no religion. So its the rules of each belief system that draws certain people in, and it's those people who act on those religious beliefs.
So YES, he does have a point. And as much as I HATE religion as a general rule in modern society (they can't keep their beliefs to themselves and when they insist on making me deal with their unproven ways), religion isn't always bad.
What percentage is good vs. bad? THAT'S the better question to me.

[Lion IRC]

Is anyone here NOT aware of pedophile priests....

I'm aware that there are apparently hundreds of closet pedophiles hiding in the clergy.
And I'm aware that there are apparently hundreds of closet atheists hiding in the clergy.

WAIT A MOMENT!!!!!

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to Lion IRC]

Are you suggesting that pedophiles can't be christians and the Catholic church did not systemically cover up and enable pedophile priests?

gee I might need to study up on all this misinformation I have been given by the victims of the catholic church