Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimony

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DanieltheDragon
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Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimony

Post #1

Post by DanieltheDragon »

1. June 1, 1853: Luminous Objects Hover Over Tennessee College Campus. As the sun rose over the campus of Burritt College, numerous students—who apparently were early risers in those days, too—were startled to see two luminous objects in the sky. According to professor A.C. Carnes, who reported the incident in a letter to Scientific American, the first had the appearance of a small new moon, while the other resembled a large star. The small object then vanished, while the bigger one changed shape, first into a globe and then into an elongated shape parallel with the horizon. The smaller light then became visible again, and increased rapidly in size, while the other object shrank. The two objects continued fluctuating in a similar fashion for the next 30 minutes. “The students have asked for an explanation, but neither the President nor Professors are satisfied as to the character of the lights,� wrote Carnes. While he himself speculated that the occurrence might have been caused somehow by atmospheric moisture, the incident remains a mystery.

2. April 17, 1897: Purported UFO crash in Texas. At about 6 a.m. that morning, according to contemporaneous Dallas Morning News account, citizens of the small town of Aurora were awakened by the appearance of what the writer referred to as an “airship.� The craft reportedly malfunctioned and stalled, and crashed into a windmill on the property of a local judge, scattering debris over several acres. “The pilot of the ship is supposed to have been the only one aboard and, while his remains were badly disfigured, enough of the original has been picked up to show that he was not an inhabitant of this world,� according to the Morning News account. Skeptics long have dismissed the account as a hoax. But in 1973, a United Press International reporter located a 91-year-old resident, Mary Evans, who recalled her parents visiting the crash site, and telling her that the body of the UFO pilot had been buried in the town cemetery.

3. February 25, 1942: The Battle of Los Angeles. In the early morning hours, radar operators spotted an unidentified object 120 miles west of Los Angeles and watched anxiously as it zoomed to within a few miles of the southern California coast and then inexplicably vanished from their screens. Sometime after that, an artillery officer along the coast reported what he described as 25 aircraft flying at 25,000 feet, and a few minutes later, other observers saw a balloon-like object carrying what appeared to be flares over nearby Santa Monica. Then, anti-aircraft batteries spotted what witnesses later described as swarms of objects flying at various altitudes, at speeds of up to 200 miles per hour. Fearing that the city was under attack by the Japanese, they fired 1,400 rounds of ammunition at the bogeys. But apparently, none of them hit anything, because no wreckage subsequently was found. Officials initially ascribed the incident to a combination of a false alarm and mass hysteria. But UFOlogists have speculated over the years that the gunners might have been shooting at extraterrestrial spacecraft.

4. January 7, 1948: Saucer Appears Over Kentucky. Early in the afternoon, dozens of residents of the Madisonville, KY area telephoned police to report that they had seen what a news account later described as “a circular object hovering overhead and giving off a brilliant glow.� State police then alerted Air Force officials at Goodman Field, an air base at Fort Knox. 15 minutes later, the airfield’s tower crew spotted the UFO as well, and used the radio to ask a squadron of P-51 fighters already aloft to investigate. Squadron leader Capt. Thomas Mantell, Jr. an expert pilot who had won the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery during World War II, responded that he had spotted the UFO and was in pursuit. “I’m closing in now to take a good look,� Mantell reported in his last radio transmission at 3:15 p.m. “The thing looks metallic, and is tremendous in size.� Three minutes later, Mantell crashed and was killed. The official conclusion was that he had run out of oxygen, but UFOlogists have long doubted that explanation.

5. November 2, 1957: Fiery Object Seen Over Texas. At about 11 p.m. that evening in the town of Levelland, TX, police received 15 frantic phone calls from local residents about a mysterious object in the sky. In an Associated Press account, one of the witnesses, a 30-year-old farm worker and Korean War veteran, described the object as a “flash of light� flying overhead with a rush of wind, and said that it had apparently caused the lights and engine of his truck to go dead. Other witnesses described the craft as blue-green and egg-shaped, and said that it abruptly morphed into a fireball before rising straight up and disappearing.

6. Dec. 9, 1965: The Kecksburg Incident. Numerous residents of the small Pennsylvania village about 40 miles from Pittsburgh saw an object that some witnesses described as streaking green fire across the sky before it crashed in a local field, just before 6 p.m. that evening. Local resident Bill Bulebush, who was working on his car when he saw the object, described it as acorn-shaped and about twice the size of a Volkswagen Beetle. He said that it glided slowing before making a U-turn and going down. A local fireman, James Romansky, later described the downed craft as having hieroglyphic-like writing around its bottom ring. He only got to examine the craft for about 15 minutes, before government and military officials arrived and ordered everyone from the scene, and posted armed guards around the perimeter. Subsequently, there was speculation that the object may have been a Soviet satellite, but UFO researcher Clifford Stone, who spoke years later to former Soviet officials, said they insisted that the object had not been one of theirs. After investigative journalist Leslie Keen filed a Freedom of Information Act suit, NASA revealed in 2009 that documentation on the case was missing.

7. March 24, 1983: V-Shaped Lights in the Hudson Valley. The suburban area, about an hour’s drive north of New York City, was the scene of more than 5,000 UFO sightings from 1982 through 1986, perhaps one of the biggest clusters of incidents in history. One night, March 24, stands out because of the sheer volume—more than 300 residents called a local UFO organization’s hotline that night, reporting that they had seen large v-shaped array of lights that moved slowly and almost silently through the sky. Some witnesses got close enough to say that the craft was big enough to be a “flying city.� Hunt Middleton, a local resident who had just stepped off a bus from New York City at 7:30 p.m., described a row of six or seven extremely bright lights. “They were all blinking on and off, and were red, blue, green and white. I knew it was not any type of conventional aircraft because the lights were stationary. It was just hovering there in the sky.� Middleton said that he watched the object for five minutes, before going inside his house to get his family to come out and see it. By then, it was gone.

8. March 13, 1997: The Phoenix Lights. On that evening, thousands of people in Nevada and Arizona reportedly saw what many described as an immense, V-shaped object outlined by seven lights. Others, however, reported seeing orbs and triangles in the sky as well. Police departments in Phoenix, Tempe, Glendale and other Arizona cities were jammed with calls from residents. One witness, a man in his thirties named Dana Valentine, said that he and his father both watched as the lights passed 500 feet directly above them. "We could see the outline of a mass behind the lights, but you
couldn't actually see the mass," Valentine says. "It was more like a gray distortion of the night sky, wavy. I don't know exactly what it was, but I know it's not a technology the public has heard of before." The military later claimed that National Guard pilots had released diversionary flares while on a training run, but not everyone accepted that explanation.

9. July 14, 2001: UFO on the New Jersey Turnpike. Multiple witnesses, including a local off-duty police officer, watched in wonder as an array of yellow lights flew in formation in suburban New Jersey near New York City late in the evening of July 14, 2001 into the early morning of the following day. A short time later, at around 12:30 a.m., another witness, Carteret police Lt. Dan Tarrant, reportedly received a call at home from his 19-year-old daughter, who was out with friends and had seen strange lights in the sky. Tarrant told the Record and ABC News that he then stepped outside to take a look. As Tarrant subsequently told ABC News, what he saw was astounding: “16 golden-orange colored lights, several in a V-type formation. Others were scattered around the V." Tarrant told the Record, a local newspaper, that the mysterious lights flashed across the sky for about 10 minutes, then faded one-by-one into darkness.

10. January 8, 2008: The Stephensville Lights. In the evening, about out 40 local residents, including a local amateur civilian pilot and a police officer, witnessed a UFO that hovered over the farming community for about five minutes before streaking away into the night sky. Police officer Lee Roy Gaitan told National Public Radio that he was walking to his car when he saw a luminous object that reminded him of pictures of erupting volcanos, suspended 3,000 feet in the air. Another witness estimated that the UFO was a half-mile wide, a mile long, and� bigger than a Wal-Mart.�

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/c ... s-of-ufos/

How do we account for a Large number of eyewitnesses?

In the above accounts was everyone Lying, Making stuff up, or other?

Are large numbers of unidentified witness enough to confirm the existence of something?


6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;(1 Corinthians 15:6)
Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
If the above verses confirm the existence of Jesus does the above events confirm the existence of UFOs?
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tam
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Post #11

Post by tam »

Quote:
I certainly don't think our governments have the intelligence to be able to hide them as a conspiracy theory.

Why not Area 51, and the aircraft developed there had been kept secret for decades, NSA spy programs have been kept secret for decades, no one still knows who authored the stuxnet worm. That aside what about an extra terrestrials ability to maintain secrecy and only deal with whom they want to?

Well, the fact that you can talk about area 51 and what was done there proves that it was not a well kept secret, doesn't it?


And if there are all these sightings of ufos, then the ET's aren't doing that a great job in maintaining secrecy either.
Quote:
I do not believe every proclaimed sighting is actually for real, mind you. I would guess that most are mistakes, and no ufo was actually seen
What about biblical claims? Are most biblical accounts mistakes and no supernatural happenings took place?

Not that I understand, but again that would be based on Christ.

But if you were to ask me about various religious sightings (which were common a hundred years ago - such as seeing the virgin mary in the sky, or some sign like that on the battlefield, etc... then I would tell you that I think those are mistaken, same as ufo sightings which end up being shown to be natural phenomenon people mistook for ufos.


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Post #12

Post by Zzyzx »

.
tam wrote:
Why not Area 51, and the aircraft developed there had been kept secret for decades, NSA spy programs have been kept secret for decades . . .
Well, the fact that you can talk about area 51 and what was done there proves that it was not a well kept secret, doesn't it?
Notice that the statement specifies "for decades" which is true. The public had no access to the secret projects of Area 51 until long after they had been put into service and/or accomplished their intended purpose.

A friend who was an development engineer there during the 1950s and 60s says there are still many things that are kept from the public (though he did not say what).
tam wrote: But if you were to ask me about various religious sightings (which were common a hundred years ago - such as seeing the virgin mary in the sky, or some sign like that on the battlefield, etc... then I would tell you that I think those are mistaken, same as ufo sightings which end up being shown to be natural phenomenon people mistook for ufos.
Why stop with religious sightings 100 years ago being mistaken? There are reports from two thousand years ago about religious "sightings" (miracles, resurrection, virgin birth, etc). There are reports from 3000 years ago about God sightings and/or conversations. Are those mistaken too?

There are current claims that people see and hear things of religious nature. Are those mistaken (or made up)?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Post #13

Post by tam »

Zzyzx wrote: .
tam wrote:
Why not Area 51, and the aircraft developed there had been kept secret for decades, NSA spy programs have been kept secret for decades . . .
Well, the fact that you can talk about area 51 and what was done there proves that it was not a well kept secret, doesn't it?
Notice that the statement specifies "for decades" which is true. The public had no access to the secret projects of Area 51 until long after they had been put into service and/or accomplished their intended purpose.
Did the public know about the place while it was supposed to be a secret? Or was it genuinely unknown until it was officially reported?
A friend who was an development engineer there during the 1950s and 60s says there are still many things that are kept from the public (though he did not say what).
I don't doubt that there are secrets. But aliens aren't a secret. We don't have proof of them, but no one has done a very good job at keeping them unknown, unseen... a secret.


tam wrote: But if you were to ask me about various religious sightings (which were common a hundred years ago - such as seeing the virgin mary in the sky, or some sign like that on the battlefield, etc... then I would tell you that I think those are mistaken, same as ufo sightings which end up being shown to be natural phenomenon people mistook for ufos.
Why stop with religious sightings 100 years ago being mistaken? There are reports from two thousand years ago about religious "sightings" (miracles, resurrection, virgin birth, etc). There are reports from 3000 years ago about God sightings and/or conversations. Are those mistaken too?
I don't mean to imply that it stopped at a hundred years ago. I just used that as an example, mainly because I recently read a book about soldiers testimonies during WWI and also WWII regarding religious experiences. It was a book about 'holy wars', showing how much religion played a role. I forget the name.

I realize that the point of this thread (and the other two) is to show the discrepancy between the criteria we use to accept one claim, but reject the other. But I actually use the same criteria. Christ, whatever He says is true; and personal evidence... as in seeing/hearing for oneself.

There are current claims that people see and hear things of religious nature. Are those mistaken (or made up)?
[/quote]

Some are, some are not.
Same criteria as above.

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Re: Mass sightings of UFO's the value of eyewitness testimon

Post #14

Post by ecco »

DanieltheDragon wrote:

If the above verses confirm the existence of Jesus does the above events confirm the existence of UFOs?
Yes.

If the following picture confirms the existence of the Loch Ness Monster, do the above verses confirm the existence of Jesus and the above events confirm the existence of UFOs

Image

Yes.

If the following picture confirms the existence fairies, does the above picture of the Loch Ness Monster confirm the existence of the Loch Ness Monster, do the above verses confirm the existence of Jesus and do the above events confirm the existence of UFOs

Image

Yes.

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Post #15

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 13 by tam]
I realize that the point of this thread (and the other two) is to show the discrepancy between the criteria we use to accept one claim, but reject the other. But I actually use the same criteria. Christ, whatever He says is true; and personal evidence... as in seeing/hearing for oneself.
This is not the same criteria. See here is the discrepancy I am getting at. You apply skepticism and rightfully so about UFOs yet you suspended that with regards to Christ.

How do you know whatever Christ says is true?
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Post #16

Post by tam »

DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 13 by tam]
I realize that the point of this thread (and the other two) is to show the discrepancy between the criteria we use to accept one claim, but reject the other. But I actually use the same criteria. Christ, whatever He says is true; and personal evidence... as in seeing/hearing for oneself.
This is not the same criteria. See here is the discrepancy I am getting at. You apply skepticism and rightfully so about UFOs yet you suspended that with regards to Christ.

How do you know whatever Christ says is true?

Because He has always spoken truth to me. In what He is written to have said, and also in what He says now. So if He told me that this was true or that was true, then I would know it was true. In the areas of ufo's or any other area.

I am not suspending skepticism in one area but not the other, because I know Christ. Personal, one on one, experience. If I had that same personal evidence or experience with a ufo, then I would be able to know one way or the other on that. (at least on my own sighting)

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Post #17

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 16 by tam]
Because He has always spoken truth to me.
What has he spoken to you that is the truth? How have you tested the veracity of these claims?
So if He told me that this was true or that was true, then I would know it was true.
Past behavior does not always indicate future behavior. Up until this point I have not lied to you either does that mean I will always not lie to you? People often always speak the truth to someone until they don't.

Of course this is all looking through the lens of either true or false. What about being mistaken? One can speak the truth and not be accurate in their claims.
For instance are all of the above sightings people not telling the truth? Could Christ tell you the truth and be just as inaccurate as these UFO claims?
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Post #18

Post by tam »

DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 16 by tam]
Because He has always spoken truth to me.
What has he spoken to you that is the truth? How have you tested the veracity of these claims?

Well, Him speaking is fairly compelling to Him being alive. Him being alive is compelling to the truth that He said about Him being the Life, the Resurrection.

(it is also compelling evidence that those who witnessed Him as written, and those who heard Him after His death and resurrection as written, were also speaking truly)

I will give you a small example of something that I was able to confirm. You will probably think it is silly. But it is small so as to be simple. One time He warned me that there were bugs in what I was about to eat. (a box of crackers from the cupboard) When I say warn, I mean He spoke, and I heard him clear as day, and my heart just started pounding (not because He spoke, but because of what He said, and bugs in my food is alarming to me). It was the middle of the night; pitch dark; and there was no way that I could have seen them, and just warned myself through my subconscious.

When I went back to bed, I just set the box aside rather than throw it out. When I got up the next morning, I was just going to throw the box of crackers out on faith (not blind faith, but faith based on what I had heard from Him). I did not need to confirm. He always spoke truth to me, and I did not want to put him to the test, or show faithlessness by not simply believing Him.

But then He told me that I could confirm, and give an answer to someone who was demanding an example of me hearing something that I could not have known beforehand.

So I emptied the box into a bowl, and started searching through it. And I did have to search. But I found one, a little larvae on one of the crackers. I assume there were more, but at that point I just threw it out.


I can't prove that story is true to you of course, any more than I can prove to you that it is true what He told me about who or rather what the beast in revelation is. But that story is just one more piece of evidence to me, which I received when I acted on faith (not blindly, but based on what I heard from Him, even if it is just believing Him).


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Post #19

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 18 by tam]
I will give you a small example of something that I was able to confirm. You will probably think it is silly. But it is small so as to be simple. One time He warned me that there were bugs in what I was about to eat.
I understand this can only be true to you and there is no way anyone can verify this claim. I would like to ask how do you A.) identify and verify this is Jesus talking to you and B.) How do you differentiate this voice you heard between something you heard vs something you thought?

to clarify B.) how do you know this came from a source apart from yourself?


A second follow up you did not check the box that moment you waited a full night of sleep before you verified. How do you know there wasn't anything in the box that night? If you set it aside a bug could have just as easily got in there during the night and laid an egg. Alternatively the bug could have been in the container you poured the contents into or it could have fell in as you were sifting through.

It could also be a hallucination. Humans have very powerful brains and we can sometimes manifest our thoughts audibly or visually. My wife for example some phobias of various bugs. Just as you yourself admit. Every once in a while she will come tell me there is a bug I need to get rid of and it turns out to be a piece of dust or a thread or a piece of lint. Even though she was convinced it was a bug. We often see what we want to see.
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Post #20

Post by tam »

I might not have time to get to your other questions until later, as I have to work, but quickly to your follow up (although thanks for at least questioning it rather than dismissing it out of hand):
A second follow up you did not check the box that moment you waited a full night of sleep before you verified. How do you know there wasn't anything in the box that night? If you set it aside a bug could have just as easily got in there during the night and laid an egg. Alternatively the bug could have been in the container you poured the contents into or it could have fell in as you were sifting through.
A full night was really just a few more hours, as this was the middle of the night (meaning around 4ish, for me) at that time. Even if it had been a full night though, that would have been quite the coincidence.

The other two possibilities could not apply because what I found was a larvae attached to a cracker. So that could not have fallen in.

I was aware while sifting of wanting to find a bug at this point (although part of me also did not want to find a bug in the hopes that I might not have actually eaten any bugs at any time), so I was careful about making sure of what I found. I don't have a particular phobia of bugs, but for them to be in something I am eating, well, I do find that alarming.



Peace again to you,
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tammy

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