If you didn't want to believe in Christianity...

[Justin108]

If you didn't want to believe in Christianity, would you stop believing? Suppose you didn't like Christianity at all. Suppose you didn't like the idea of Jesus dying for your sins, an afterlife, etc. would your belief in Christianity stop?

If not, what is it about Christianity that makes any alternative so absolutely unbelievable?

[MadeNew]

If you didn't want to believe in Christianity, would you stop believing? Suppose you didn't like Christianity at all. Suppose you didn't like the idea of Jesus dying for your sins, an afterlife, etc. would your belief in Christianity stop?

If not, what is it about Christianity that makes any alternative so absolutely unbelievable?

If you "didn't like" Christianity, so you stopped believing it... Isn't that just some subjective opinion orchestrating your reactions? If Christianity is objectively true, should your emotional reaction to the crucifixion be a leading cause for you to reject it?

I see this a lot in atheism.. They just "don't like" things like the Old Testament authority, or Jesus's death for their sins, so they fight against Christianity... But if we put our opinions on objective truth, instead of subjective emotional reactions, then that shouldn't be a reason to deny Christianity...

The question should become, is Christianity objectively true? Instead of "do i like" Christianity?

Because form my experience, Christianity isn't attractive.. It just isn't appealing compared to EVERYTHING else in the world. And likewise the scripture admits this.

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
(Isaiah 53)

But if Christianity is objectively true, then you better start repenting...


36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.�
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?�
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
(Acts 2)

[Divine Insight]

I see this a lot in atheism.. They just "don't like" things like the Old Testament authority, or Jesus's death for their sins, so they fight against Christianity... But if we put our opinions on objective truth, instead of subjective emotional reactions, then that shouldn't be a reason to deny Christianity...

This is actually a straw man. Most atheists reject Christianity precisely because there is no objective truth to it and they can point to precisely why this is true.

In fact, I don't even know of any atheists who actually reject Christianity just because they don't like what it has to say.

The ones who point out that the Biblical God appears to be an immoral and ignorant God are doing so, not because they don't like that kind of God, but rather because that very observation is proof that the God of the Bible cannot be objectively true.

The God of the Bible is simply not supposed to be ignorant and immoral. He's supposedly be all-wise, all-righteous, trustworthy, etc. Yet, the God described in the Bible is none of those things. So the Bible can only be a collection of contradictory claims.

Whether we like those claims or not has nothing to do with whether we should believe in them or not.

Most people would like the idea of a Santa Claus. Does that make Santa Claus real? I'm willing to bet that most atheists don't believe in Santa Claus even though they would like for Santa Claus to be real.

[MadeNew]

[Replying to post 12 by Divine Insight]


"If Christianity was proved to be true would you become a Christian?"


"No. If the Bible were true I would worship Satan openly, because God is a vindictive, petty psychopath."

This kind of response is common.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 12 by Divine Insight]


"If Christianity was proved to be true would you become a Christian?"


"No. If the Bible were true I would worship Satan openly, because God is a vindictive, petty psychopath."

This kind of response is common.

But see the Bible couldn't be true then.

If people are rejecting the Biblical God because they see him as being a vindictive petty psychopath then what does this say? This says that they can't be accepting the idea that the Biblical God is all-righteous and trustworthy.

This would actually be the fault of the Biblical God himself for having created a Bible that causes decent people to reject him for being an indecent God.

These people that you are referring to are not doing what the Bible claims they should be doing. They are not rejecting all that is "Good" and instead lusting after all that is "Evil". Instead they are rejecting a picture of a "God" that they see as being the epitome of Evil.

If people see Satan as being morally superior to the God of the Bible what does this say about the God of the Bible?

Clearly this religion has extreme problems.

You simply can't have people rejecting a God for being a vindictive, petty psychopath, when it is claimed that this God is actually the epitome of righteousness.

So this is a failure of Christianity as a religion. It can't possibly be the failure of any actual God to make his righteousness known. That would be an inept God. And that would violate what the Biblical God is supposed to be.

So if people are rejecting the Bible on the grounds that it portrays a vindictive, petty psychopath, then clearly they are rejecting the Bible as being obviously false in it's claims that its God is righteous.

I've made statements like this as well. I've often said, "If the Biblical God were true I would have no choice but to reject his immoral ultimatums."

But this doesn't mean that the Bible has a chance of being true. What it actually means is that since my above conclusion is true, then the Bible cannot be true. In other words, it's a sarcastic hypothetical to make a point that the Biblical God fails no matter what excuses are offered for it.

It's basically saying that even if there existed a God as described in the Bible it wouldn't be worthy of worship.

And keep in mind this doesn't help Christianity one iota. Because their God isn't supposed to be so pathetic. In fact, most Christians LOVE Jesus precisely because they too HATE the God of the Old Testament. They wouldn't worship the God of the Old Testament either.

In fact most Christians will openly confess that if you take Jesus out of the mix they would NOT return to worship Judaism and the God of the Old Testament.

Take Jesus out of the mix and they're done with the religion. So they hate the God of the OT just as much as most atheists do.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 12 by Divine Insight]


"If Christianity was proved to be true would you become a Christian?"


"No. If the Bible were true I would worship Satan openly, because God is a vindictive, petty psychopath."

This kind of response is common.

In fact, here's another way to put this.

Is the God of the Bible a vindictive, petty psychopath?

Is so, then these atheists have good reason to reject him. Not only this but if they actually believe he exists they wouldn't be "Atheists" anyway.

If you claim that the God of the Bible is NOT a vindictive, petty psychopath, then guess what,....

They wouldn't be rejecting the actual God of the Bible but instead they would be rejecting a totally false and incorrect misunderstanding of the God of the Bible.

Therefore if the God of the Bible actually exists he would be absolutely THRILLED that people are rejecting a totally incorrect misunderstanding of him.

So anyone who rejects the Biblical God because they see him as being vindictive, petty psychopath are either right and justified in their rejection of him, or they are wrong and thus aren't rejecting the "Real God" at all since they have a misunderstanding of what the "Real God" actually stands for.

[MadeNew]

What if Christianity is objectively true?

The "Gospels", translated literally as "The Good News"

The righteousness of God has not been surpassed by any human.

For 33 When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. 34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.�(Luke 23)

But you claim to be more righteous then God

"3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes."(Romans 10)

"Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."(Romans 5)

"2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."(Colossians 2)

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."(1 John 4:8)

"16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."(John 3:16)

"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."(2 Corinthians 5:21)

"There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends."(John 15:13)


If God is objectively true, you are objectively wrong. God is love and righteousness. The Good News!

Have you ever been crucified?

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them."(Romans 1)

[Divine Insight]

Have you ever been crucified?

I have never done anything worthy of being crucified for. Therefore I certainly don't need a surrogate to serve as my penal substitute.

You push lies... Saying if Christianity is true it is wicked? You are the fulfillment of the scripture.

Everything I speak about the Bible is true. And all the accusations that Christians use as hateful weapons against me from their scriptures only demonstrates that they hate Jesus and refuse to obey him, because Jesus taught to love your neighbor and not to bear false witness against him.

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them."(Romans 1)

But the people you had originally accused of rejecting the Biblical God said nothing at all about their own possible "wickedness". To the contrary they rejected a God that they see as being wicked.

Paul is the one who is telling lies. Paul is making accusations against people he knows absolutely nothing at all about.

In fact, look at what Paul is saying, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven".

The wrath of God?

There you go. Paul himself verifies that the God of the Bible is a wrathful and vengeful entity that cannot be trusted. So Paul has actually vindicated everyone who sees the Biblical God as being a wrathful vindictive petty psychopath.

Paul guarantees the truth of this.

So unless you can go back in time and re-write the Bible to be about an actual loving trustworthy God everyone who rejects the Biblical God as being a vindictive petty psychopath has been vindicated by Paul and many other authors of the Bible.

You seem to be arguing that these so-called "atheists" are right for rejecting the vengeful vindictive petty psychopathic God of the Bible.

You've just verified through the words of Paul that the God of the Bible is indeed a wrathful untrustworthy monster.

So there you go. Too bad you didn't think to offer something from the Bible that actually suggests that the God of the Bible might be decent. Surely you could have found verses that suggest this. So why are you burning down your own house of cards by quoting verses that confirm the vindictive nature of the Biblical God?

This doesn't seem to be helping your cause.

[MadeNew]

How in the world can God be a righteous judge by your standard!? If Christianity is objectively true, then sin in the world is objectively true!

Evidence!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

"3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.�[a]
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?� 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result�? Their condemnation is just!"(Romans 3)

God IS a righteous judge!

[Divine Insight]

How in the world can God be a righteous judge by your standard!? If Christianity is objectively true, then sin in the world is objectively true!

God IS a righteous judge!

But this conflicts with what you were accusing people of earlier:

You claimed the following

"If Christianity was proved to be true would you become a Christian?"

"No. If the Bible were true I would worship Satan openly, because God is a vindictive, petty psychopath."

This kind of response is common.:

So the people you are making derogatory accusations against clearly aren't in agreement with you that if Christianity is true this means that God is a righteous judge. If they accepted that they could hardly suggest that God is a vindictive petty psychopath.

So clearly you aren't understanding their position.

I only need to ask you one question:

Is the God of the Bible a vindictive psychopath?

If you claim that he's not, then clearly you have just vindicated everyone who rejects the Biblical God as being a vindictive psychopath because you are proclaiming that they have no clue what they are talking about.

So you've just vindicated every single last one of them.

[Justin108]

Everyone seems to have missed part 2 of my question;

If not, what is it about Christianity that makes any alternative so absolutely unbelievable?