Atheism truth, is nonexistent

[Tart]

Can we all just agree, right off the bat, that there is no amount of burden of proof atheism can bare to establish that it is accurate and correct? That atheism has no valid right to claim any truth claims about God, whether He does or does not exist, they simply cant make any determining claims of truth in the regard of Gods existence... And all the truth claims, and positive evidence rest on the side of Christianity (between atheism is Christianity that is)...

Can we just agree, there is no truth claims atheism can make?

[Walterbl]

Simply not believing in gods is not a truth claim about gods or anything else.

"There is No God" is a statement that can be true or false.

We even have scientific natural evidence that the Bible if false. The Bible claims that humans are to be blamed for bringing sin and evil into the world. But we know that this is false. So the Bible begin with a demonstrably false charge.
.

How has that been proven to be false?

[Tart]

Can we just agree, there is no truth claims atheism can make?

I don't know if all of us can agree that atheism makes no truth claims, but I'd say that atheism, as I understand it, does not and can not make any truth claims. Atheism, properly understood, is an absence of belief in any gods. Simply not believing in gods is not a truth claim about gods or anything else.

That said, an atheist can certainly make truth claims about gods. I'm an atheist and I claim all the time that gods are imaginary beings that people create.

Yes, i totally agree with you... Atheism cant make and truth claims about God not existing, yet atheist make these claims all the time... That's the problem... When confronted, usually they backpedal on these statements, claim they have no burden of proving the claims they assert, with no need to justify any of their beliefs... That is the problem.

Thats why Dr. Greg Bahnsen was quoted saying..
"The atheist is satisfied to ignore the need for intellectual justification and explanation, the need to gain consistency within his total beliefs, and the need to demonstrate systematic cogency in his overall perspective on the world, man, and values."

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 12 by Tart]

Yes, i totally agree with you... Atheism cant make and truth claims about God not existing, yet atheist make these claims all the time

You actually have that right.
AtheISM is basically the state of having no belief in a god or gods. It therefore cannot make truth claims of any sort.
AtheISTS are people and as you might expect...some of us do make truth claims.

However, for the purposes of discussion, which statement of the two are you actually complaining about?
A) "I'm an atheist and I don't believe in a god or gods"
B) "I'm an atheist, and God doesn't exist"

When confronted, usually they backpedal on these statements, claim they have no burden of proving the claims they assert, with no need to justify any of their beliefs... That is the problem.

Because it depends on which statement you are critiquing.

[FarWanderer]

atheist make [claims about God not existing] all the time...

I challenge this assertion. Who? When? Provide evidence or justification please.

[rikuoamero]

atheist make [claims about God not existing] all the time...

I challenge this assertion. Who? When? Provide evidence or justification please.

As I indicated in my previous response, some specific atheists do make such claims. I make the claim, I'm pretty sure DI has made the claim that the God creature of the Bible cannot exist. Can't speak for anyone else though.
Tart needs to tell us whether he's complaining about atheism, which doesn't make a truth claim on the existence of God, or about atheists. If the former, his complaint is malformed.
If the latter, then he needs to talk to those specific atheists who do make the claim.

[FarWanderer]

Atheism makes the implied claim that the evidence/justification for belief in a deity is insufficient.

We're arguing semantics here, but I think a better term for what you're arguing would be "antitheism" rather than atheism. Antitheism is an active philosophical opposition to theism. So antitheists might imply or state explicitly that there is no sufficient reason or evidence for gods.

I do know some people who have no belief in any gods. But they have nothing to say about the evidence for or against any gods. They just don't care about theological issues. Such people obviously are not theists. So what are they? The only sensible answer I can think of is that they are atheists. Their atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods.

They’ve “said� their part by their (non-)response to theistic ideas, in so far as they have been exposed to them. It’s a claim implied by action.

Additionally, it often also makes the implied claim that anyone who does believe also lacks sufficient evidence/justification themselves and therefore believes in error.

As I see it, those who believe in gods as having existence independent of the human imagination are mistaken. There are no such gods, and people err when they think any of the gods exist. But my recognizing this error doesn't form the basis for my atheism. It's possible that I might not even know people are making this mistake, but I might still lack belief in gods and be an atheist.

Yes, I said “often� for this reason- to indicate it is not a necessary aspect of being an atheist. We’re talking more of a subset of atheists, for which your word, antitheist, may be appropriate.

[Tcg]

They’ve “said� their part by their (non-)response to theistic ideas, in so far as they have been exposed to them.

Atheism doesn't require exposure to any theistic ideas.

It’s a claim implied by action.

What action?

[FarWanderer]

They’ve “said� their part by their (non-)response to theistic ideas, in so far as they have been exposed to them.

Atheism doesn't require exposure to any theistic ideas.

By its most useful definition I think it does.

You wouldn’t want to call a man raised by wolves without exposure to religion of any kind an “atheist� unless you wanted to imply that atheism is the ‘default’ human condition for rhetorical purposes.

It’s a claim implied by action.

What action?

Going about their lives as though the religious claims carry no weight.

Actions are the direct embodiment of belief. Words may or may not be an accurate representation (and quite often they are not).

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 6:

[quote ="FarWanderer"]
Atheism makes the implied claim that the evidence/justification for belief in a deity is insufficient.
[/quote]
Rejecting the claims of them that can't show they speak truth is not a positive 'implication' that the opposite must be true. It's nothing more'n a recognition that some folks have errant, unprovable beliefs, and that some are just a big ol' sack of liars who might well be wearin' 'em dirty socks when it is that they do.

That the theist is woefully incapable of showing they speak truth does not, and should not, bear upon the atheist any burden other'n to point his finger at them incapable of showing they speak truth, and thereupon issuing a gutteral laugh at the preacher's expense.

The atheist has no other burden than to expect the claimant shows they speak truth.

Only don't it beat all, in the broken thought process of the theistic claimant, they expect those who reject their unproven claims need to them justify why it is they don't just up and trust 'em them that'n there that can't show he speaks him anything approaching within a light year of the truth.

There is NO positive claim to "I don't believe you", other'n to -ahem- imply that if you can show you speak truth, I got me no reason to disagree.

But the theist can't accept that. The theist clings to his tome like a pup does a nipple. The theist clings to such as "all them that disagree, well they's evil". The theist clings to slanders and slurs when their goofy, sense assaulting claims are challenged or rejected.

They're so caught up in their own goofy beliefs, their own goofy claims, they are infantily predisposed to accuse anyone who rejects their goofy, unsubstantianted claims to be declaring anything other'n you got you some goofy, unsubstantiated claims.


Quit it with the accusing folks of making assertions based on your own goofy, unsubstantiated claims.

Quit it with the gaslighting in the face of your own inabilities!

Just step the heck up and show you speak truth!

Or just step the heck up and fess that is ya can't!

[Goat]

atheist make [claims about God not existing] all the time...

I challenge this assertion. Who? When? Provide evidence or justification please.

As I indicated in my previous response, some specific atheists do make such claims. I make the claim, I'm pretty sure DI has made the claim that the God creature of the Bible cannot exist. Can't speak for anyone else though.
Tart needs to tell us whether he's complaining about atheism, which doesn't make a truth claim on the existence of God, or about atheists. If the former, his complaint is malformed.
If the latter, then he needs to talk to those specific atheists who do make the claim.

There is a difference between saying that the God of the bible does not exist, and saying God does not exist.