Explaining Christmas to Chinese Friends

[StuartJ]

I have a number of Chinese friends.

They are educated and cosmopolitan.

They know very little of Christianity. It's quite foreign to them.

How can I explain the details of Jesus' nativity ...?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 6 by JehovahsWitness]

and if they are still sniggering after having been familiar with it for years then I suggest their education is still lacking as it seems to have not taught them respect or tolerance.

So one cannot laugh at a set of teachings that say, among other things, that unbelievers are condemned for their sin, that this is the hall mark of an all wise loving creator God?

That to me is silly. Both the teaching, and your response that laughing at it is not "respect or tolerance".
Sorry friend, but respect has to be earned. It is not automatically given.

[Bust Nak]

There is a good chance this is their first exposure to spirituality.

It's unlikely that Chinese youths would be unfamilar with Buddhism, Taoism and Chinese folk religion.

[JehovahsWitness]

They know very little of Christianity. It's quite foreign to them.

My advice is to start with the basics. They need to be helped to see whether there is a God or not before moving on to what that God can or cannot do in terms of miracles. Christianity is based on the premise of the existence of a Creator so to understand Christianity one must first examine this premise. Below are some brochures I would recommend to get them started.


Read online: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/23459

[free download]



Read Online: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/23467

[free download][/quote]




It might also be helpful in this regard listen to former atheists and how they approached the question.

Irene Hof Laurenceau: An Orthopedic Surgeon Explains Her Faith
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/Origin ... cr_5_VIDEO

Evolution or Creation? A biochemist explains his faith
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 217#799217

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

Do you think full blown creationism is really the best place to introduce secularists (ones who already found the idea of virgin birth laughable, no less) to Christianity?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

Irene Hof Laurenceau: An Orthopedic Surgeon Explains Her Faith
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/Origin ... cr_5_VIDEO

I just LOVE the immense leap of logic. First, she's talking about her profession, okay...then she's talking about the knee, okay...how it bends, how a prosthesis works...okay, and then BAM!,
at 1:15, she immediately jumps to "We HAVE to believe there is a designer who is superior to us", that for a foot to work, it has to have harmony in the joints.
At no point is there any recognition of the logical problem that not all humans have this harmony of joints, that some of us are born with disfigured limbs. Were their limbs designed such too?
Like so many other pieces of Christian propaganda, this video pretends that the conflict, the thing keeping (at least some) people from being Christian is the theory of evolution, that once they somehow defeat that, then this means they're now Christian, the Bible is true.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

Evolution or Creation? A biochemist explains his faith
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 217#799217

You're doing it again.
You're linking back to previous posts of yours, all the while ignoring the fact that I and others submitted rebuttals (to which you didn't respond). I clicked that link, read it, scrolled down the page, and...yup.
I had a rebuttal to it. You didn't respond to my rebuttal then, and now you're linking back to your post as if my rebuttal doesn't exist.

[PinSeeker]

When Christianity is laid out ... In clinical, emotion-free detail ...

But that's the problem, isn't it, Stuart? When "laid out" by folks like you, one can't help but snicker -- especially educated Christians like me. I've done it many times.

As for me, I'd start with our natural condition as human beings and compare that with the Standard and where we all naturally and of our own volition stand in relation to it.

[PinSeeker]

At no point is there any recognition of the logical problem that not all humans have this harmony of joints, that some of us are born with disfigured limbs. Were their limbs designed such too?

This is worth responding to:

The reason this person doesn't go into that is that it's really beyond the point that's being made. Sure, in this world, nothing works as it should. Pre-Fall, that was the case, but post-Fall it is no longer. One day all will be restored, and that will be the case once again. All that aside, as a surgeon, I would think this person uniquely qualified to see the harmony of joins -- if working correctly -- is pristine artwork.

Now, as for people with disfigured limbs -- or any other kind of physical (or mental) abnormality or malady, as far as the Creator God is concerned, there are no "mistakes." I'm quite sure many here will interpret that as "God is mean and makes some to suffer through life," but that's ridiculous. God still has a calling on people's lives, imperfect as they may be. He is able to bless folks regardless of, and even through, their earthly circumstances. God still has a calling on people's lives, imperfect as they may be. I have a "thorn" in my own flesh, but regardless of it and even though it, God has given me joy inexpressible, which I know one day will be made complete.

Like so many other pieces of Christian propaganda, this video pretends that the conflict, the thing keeping (at least some) people from being Christian is the theory of evolution, that once they somehow defeat that, then this means they're now Christian, the Bible is true.

I agree that there's way, way, WAY too much emphasis placed on evolution by both sides. Believing or not believing in evolution is not what keeps people from being Christians.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 18 by PinSeeker]

The reason this person doesn't go into that is that it's really beyond the point that's being made. Sure, in this world, nothing works as it should. Pre-Fall, that was the case, but post-Fall it is no longer. One day all will be restored, and that will be the case once again. All that aside, as a surgeon, I would think this person uniquely qualified to see the harmony of joins -- if working correctly -- is pristine artwork.

It's a simple thing. If the woman sees the harmony of joints in a healthy human being as being indicative of a creator designer, then logically speaking, the disharmony of joints in a non-healthy human being should not be indicative of a creator designer.
That, or the creator designer is responsible in both situations.

Now, as for people with disfigured limbs -- or any other kind of physical (or mental) abnormality or malady, as far as the Creator God is concerned, there are no "mistakes."

I did not use the word mistakes, so I don't know why you are singling it out by putting it in scare quotes.

I'm quite sure many here will interpret that as "God is mean and makes some to suffer through life," but that's ridiculous.

Oh really? So according to the doctor JW linked to, God designed and is responsible for the healthy knees of a healthy human.
Logically speaking, this same God MUST be responsible for the unhealthy knees of an unhealthy human. If God is to be praised in the first case, then...he has to be condemned in the latter.
It'd be like...if I built cars, if I build a good functional one for my friend, but I build one that barely works at all for you. Am I to be praised for what I give you?

He is able to bless folks regardless of, and even through, their earthly circumstances.

So how come he then apparently gives people bum knees?

I have a "thorn" in my own flesh, but regardless of it and even though it, God has given me joy inexpressible, which I know one day will be made complete.

I'm not entirely sure what you allude to. Some sickness or illness or malady? Same here. I grew up with asthma. I've got allergies, and I highly suspect that if I don't already have, I will eventually have diabetes, cancer and IBS.

Of course God could have just made sure that such illnesses don't even exist, but hey...if the person down the road is able to enjoy more or less perfect health, then Praise God! Hallelujah!

I agree that there's way, way, WAY too much emphasis placed on evolution by both sides. Believing or not believing in evolution is not what keeps people from being Christians.

At least you agree with me on that. Thanks. The video is stupid in how it tells us she studies to be a doctor, then reads up on the theory of evolution, she somehow defeats it by seeing a designer in human knees and then immediately she's a Christian, the Bible is true and all that.

[marco]

But that's the problem, isn't it, Stuart? When "laid out" by folks like you, one can't help but snicker -- especially educated Christians like me. I've done it many times.

Moderator Comment

Education teaches us not to snicker, PinSeeker. We can deduce your opinion from your comments on the OP. Making demeaning remarks about other posters is not permitted here. Additionally, such comments as:

"This is worth responding to: "


come over as derogatory. There is no danger of your abilities being undervalued; just let your appraisals speak for themselves. Enjoy your stay here and let others appreciate your comments without insults.


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