Biblical Writings as Historical Fiction

[SallyF]

Historical fiction is defined as movies and novels in which a story is made up but is set in the past and sometimes borrows true characteristics of the time period in which it is set. https://www.yourdictionary.com/historical-fiction

Historical Fiction:
the genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/historical-fiction

The genre of historical fiction in the field of children’s literature
includes stories that are written to portray a time period or
convey information about a specific time period or an historical
event. Usually the event or time period is about 30 years in the
past. http://www.readwritethink.org/files/res ... onDefn.pdf

We successfully determined in an earlier thread that biblical writings can often safely be shown to fit definitions of fantasy fiction.

Can we determine that biblical writings can also be shown to fit definitions of historical fiction ...?

(For purposes of this topic, the definitions off historical fiction given above may mean just whatever we choose them to mean ... and no further explanation is necessary.)

[Difflugia]

How in your opinion does one distinguish between a book that is historical fiction and a book that should not be thus classified? And how do you proposing proving that a book has been thus misassigned?

Do you mean in a genre sense, like Harry Potter or do you mean where the alternative is that it's a non-fictional, historical narrative?

The difference between historical fiction as genre and, say, fantasy is that fantasy typically contains supernatural elements, like Harry Potter or the Gospel of Luke. Historical fiction as a genre is generally defined by more-or-less historically accurate, non-fictive elements used as a literary frame for a fictive, but otherwise plausible narrative. If we have a story without provenance and have to determine the difference between historical narrative and historical, but fictive narrative, I suppose proof would be in identifying narrative elements that are clearly fictional. An example of this would be the Gospel of Luke's census narrative. The problem is that without knowing the author's intentions, the line between fiction and erroneous non-fiction is difficult to divine. If Luke's Gospel didn't have fantastic elements like armies of singing angels and dead people coming back to life, then it might be hard to decide if it were properly fiction or an honest, but incompetent attempt at history.

[JehovahsWitness]

Historical fiction as a genre is generally defined by more-or-less historically accurate, non-fictive elements used as a literary frame for a fictive, but otherwise plausible narrative.

And by what crieria would you go about proving* that an element is fictive and thus belongs in that category?

* Verifiable, falsifiable proof

[SallyF]

As far as we can determine, this book is historical fiction.




As far as we can determine, this booklet is historical fiction.

The Gospel According to Mark also qualifies as fantasy fiction.

Both book/let/s have the possibly fictional Jesus as one of the characters.

Both book/let/s reference "God" - the mythological Middle East god Yahweh, in this case.

Neither book/let is shown to have been inspired by any version of "God".

Neither book/let has the author claim to be writing the "Word of God".

Folks may come to know, through faith alone, that either, or both, ARE the "Word of God".

[Difflugia]

And by what crieria would you go about proving* that an element is fictive and thus belongs in that category?

* Verifiable, falsifiable proof

Well, I guess the only things we could actually prove to be fiction are works that involve characters or events that are absolutely impossible. Harry Potter qualifies because it has wizards and magic. Esther applies, because we know that the pattern of events described aren't actual Persian history. If we're going to talk about proof in the sense that you want to apply, Ruth is oddly just about the only book of the Bible that we can't prove as fiction, because its pattern of names, characters and story are only very, very improbable instead of including the impossible, supernatural, fantastic elements of the other books of the Bible. For exactly the reasons you included as hallmarks of fiction (vague time periods, lack of detail regarding location, fictional characters with no attachment to history), the book of Ruth can't be connected to any real history in time or place, so it can't be proven to be nonfiction. In that sense, the book of Ruth would be like The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. Even though Mark Twain said it was fiction, we can't prove it, because it's possible that Twain wrote nonfiction, but then forgot that it was nonfiction or just lied about it. In fact, Twain was a pretty well-known atheist, so he might have written it and then lied about it in order to discredit the Bible. How could we prove he didn't?

[JehovahsWitness]

And by what crieria would you go about proving* that an element is fictive and thus belongs in that category?

* Verifiable, falsifiable proof

Well, I guess the only things we could actually prove to be fiction are works that involve characters or events that are absolutely impossible.

And how would one go about proving an impossibility? For early man flying to the moon was considered "impossible", so is space travel possible or impossible?

[bjs]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Anything is possible, but I am not sure why the hypothesis should be supported.

Do you have a specific reason why you think the Bible is historical fiction? I am looking for something more than, “Hey, this match with what I already believe is true!�

[Tcg]

And how would one go about proving an impossibility? For early man flying to the moon was considered "impossible", so is space travel possible or impossible?

For early man it was quite impossible. Due to the technical advances humans developed, landing on the moon became possible in 1969.

Space travel became possible before that and of course is still possible today.


Tcg

[Goose]

Well, I guess the only things we could actually prove to be fiction are works that involve characters or events that are absolutely impossible. Harry Potter qualifies because it has wizards and magic.

Based on this criterion Plutarch's biography of Caesar qualifies as fiction then as well.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Anything is possible, but I am not sure why the hypothesis should be supported.

Do you have a specific reason why you think the Bible is historical fiction? I am looking for something more than, “Hey, this match with what I already believe is true!�

Well …

A few things here …

There's no such thing as THE Bible …

You don't know what I already believe (I don't have beliefs BTW) …

I'm pretty sure "anything is possible" is incorrect …

You haven't actually addressed the OP.

To address the OP … and SILENCE frightful atheists … you COULD take a story like the "Slaughter of the Innocents" - helpfully depicted below in this holy icon (which really HAS to be violent erotica for their Really Most Awfully Reverend Celibate Christian Holinesses who sanctioned and paid for this spiritually nourishing work of Christian art) ...



And demonstrate that it really did happen.

Because ...

Outside the Jesus propaganda ...

We have not a peep of such a huge event.

Josephus and others would have RELISHED such a news item.

But not a squeak.

Not smudge of sharpened stick on vellum.

Not a chisel to sandstone.

Yes there WAS a Herod the Great (the bloke the Jesus character was trying to unseat when he trashed his place of worship) THAT bit qualifies as REAL history …

which lends authenticity (for some) to the bits that look suspiciously like things people just made up for the sake propaganda sensationalism.

You know … FICTION.

Evidence would just shred this Atheist like those 42 rude boys in the "Word of God" …



Apparently THIS story isn't historical fiction either ...!

[tam]

Peace to you,

Historical fiction is defined as movies and novels in which a story is made up but is set in the past and sometimes borrows true characteristics of the time period in which it is set. https://www.yourdictionary.com/historical-fiction

Historical Fiction:
the genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/historical-fiction

The genre of historical fiction in the field of children’s literature
includes stories that are written to portray a time period or
convey information about a specific time period or an historical
event. Usually the event or time period is about 30 years in the
past. http://www.readwritethink.org/files/res ... onDefn.pdf

We successfully determined in an earlier thread that biblical writings can often safely be shown to fit definitions of fantasy fiction.

No doubt that is the opinion of some, but it has not been shown to be true. On to the question of this thread...

Can we determine that biblical writings can also be shown to fit definitions of historical fiction ...?

No, you cannot.

Unless you can show that the authors believed they were writing historical fiction, then no. Historical fiction requires an author who knows they are writing fiction (obviously, since they would be the ones making it up as fiction). The evidence we do have does not support the idea that these stories are historical fiction. Just the opposite in fact.

For instance:

We have the author of Luke stating specifically how he came to write his gospel:

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the Word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.


As well, the letters being written to various congregations in various places does not indicate historical fiction. They indicate a belief that the Christ (and the things that occurred with Him and the apostles during His ministry) actually happened.




You are free to agree or disagree that those accounts are true, of course, but there is no evidence to support them being historical fiction. The evidence we do have supports just the opposite.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy