Christianity, is this real?

[Abdullah]

I have a little question for our fellow Christian people;

Since Christianity is based on the fact that Jesus is the son of God.

And Christians have the bible, which they normally should accept. But why are there a contradicitions in the bible about Jesus (pbuh)?

The easiest example that comes up within me is;

Matthew Chapter 1 verse 1-2

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.


2 Abraham begot Isaac, and Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brethren.

And it goes further, but just the first verse is enough.

Now Jesus, son of David?

[Cogitoergosum]

as i told u the first time easyrider when u posted that touching story is that ur imam was dumb, because if he was smart he would have told u that the first holy war was initiated by pope urban the second to drive the moslims out of the holy land. u did not reply to that then i hope u will address it now.

[kman]

abdullah he probably meant in the first verse that they are descendants from david and abraham, the real question is y go thru all the trouble of stating the genealogy of jesus son of joseph and showing that joseph is a descendant of david, when supposedly mary was a virgin, so joseph was only the step father. Jesus doesn't have joseph's DNA, so is not a descendant of david. If anything they should have done the genealogy of mary.
It is especially nice when they trace it back to adam and eve who did not exist. Awesome.

First off, if Adam and Eve did not exist, then who were the first male and female on earth and who sinned first? Second of all, a man's name was traced back through the father's side of the family. They didn't break things down into DNA back then. As head of the House, Joseph's side of the family would be the one that his children got their name from. God gave Mary the baby, but Joseph was her espoused husband which meant that they were married as much as possible excpet that they had not said vows or slept together. Back then an espousal was much more binding than an engagement nowadays. Back then, when you were espoused to someone, in order to break it off one or the other had to be unfaithful or something drastic like that. They couldn't just live together and try out marriage with different people until they found someone who worked for them. By the time you got to the espousal part it was already given that it was "til death do us part". So for all intents and purposes, Joseph and MAry were married, just had not consummatted it. The woman's part of the family was not important back then. All that mattered was who your dad was, and God picked Mary to have Jesus because she was all but married to Joseph, a guy whose lineage dated back to Abraham just as prophecy foretold. He could have picked anyone to be Jesus's earthly father, but he picked someone who was descended from a line of kings.

[kman]

The bible is absurd and so is the koran by the way.

Do you know enough of the Quran to make that assertion? I don't.

I have read the koran and i can make the assertion, but i read it in arabic "my native language" (my second language is french, my third is actually english) so i can't really quote for u in english to see the basurdities in it. If i have time i'll read it in english if i can find it translated cause devout moslims refuse to translate it. Like if god only spoke arabic. Absurd.

I must admit that I do not like the little saying at the bottom of your message screens...."It has served us well this myth of Christ" Christ is no more a myth than the idea that you were once a dog and were reincarnated as a human. (I don't believe in reincarnation by the way)
I have not read the Koran extensively, but I have read the Bible quite alot. What is it about the Bible that you find absurd? The fact that there is a God? The fact that that God loves you enough to die for you? How about the fact that we are all sinners doomed to Hell with Christ's blood shed for our sins? Do you believ in Heaven? Or is it absurd to think that there might be life after death? Do you think it absurd that God talks about eternity and our poor feebel human minds can not comprhend everything that eternity entails? I guess some people would think it absurd to listen to someone who knew far more than they would ever know, and actually try to learn from them. I mean, after all..if we don't understand it then it must not be true and must be absurd.

[kman]

I have a little question for our fellow Christian people;

Since Christianity is based on the fact that Jesus is the son of God.

And Christians have the bible, which they normally should accept. But why are there a contradicitions in the bible about Jesus (pbuh)?

The easiest example that comes up within me is;

Matthew Chapter 1 verse 1-2

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begot Isaac, and Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brethren.

And it goes further, but just the first verse is enough.

Now Jesus, son of David?

You need to understand 1st century colloquilisms. Many Jews considered themselves the "sons of Abraham" too, even though intermediary forefathers aren't mentioned.

I hope you have something better than that.

By the way, here's something for you:

Allah or Jesus?

by Rev. Rick Mathes (he is heavily involved in prison ministry)

Last month I (Rick Mathes) attended my annual training session that's required for
maintaining my state prison security clearance.

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who
explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.
The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with
a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and
answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world.

And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they
are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation,
he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers
of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your
faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and
command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand
in the cookie jar.

He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine the
Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.
Charles Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and
your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me.

Let me ask you a question.

Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go
to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to
Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Wow easyrider, I really liked that. I have not seen too many people on here arguing for Christianity. You statement was a relief as it showed me that I was not the only person out here arguing this particular viewpoint.

[kman]

<snip tall story>

Jesus is Lord!

This has all the earmarks of the evangalistic urban legend where some brave, intelligent religious Christian, with a brilliant display of logic , proves Jesus is God
to some poor, stupid, unimaginative athiest, muslim, jew, hindu etc.

Why do you feel the need to repeat these stories? They obviously are just stories to make evangalists feel good.

Even if the story is made up (which I doubt) the principles are very real. Try dealing with what's real for a change.

You put out a tall tail , and talk about "what's real for a change"?
The principle is not sound at all. The use of poor logic, building up a strawman of what others think, and mocking them is certainly not reality.

I suppose that it might make certain types feel better about themselves though.

Hey man, just because you don't believe something does not mean it is fake or unreal. I have a friend who actually went through a similar incident like the one easyrider spoke about. I know things like that are real. Easyrider was not saying the Imam was a poor, stupid, unimaginative person. He was merely relating something that had happened. So don't be so critical and insulting.

[Cogitoergosum]

KMAN THERE WAS NO ADAM AND EVE, NO ORIGINAL SIN. MAN EVOLVED FROM A COMMON ANCESTER THAT APES AN OTHER MAMMALS HAD, GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IS NOT SO LOVING, IN THE NEW ONE A LITTLE BIT MORE LOVING. AND THE WHOLE BIBLE IS ABSURD, WHAT IS MORE ABSURD IS U BELIEVING IN IT LITERALLY. READ SOME SCIENCE AND LESS BARBARIC SCIENCE FICTION.
IF U DON'T LIKE MY QUOTE AT THE END, WELL THAT'S UR PROBLEM, THIS IS A DEBATING SITE AND THIS IS MY OPINION, U EITHER DEAL WITH IT OR GO DEBATE WITH UR FRIENDS.

[arayhay]

I have a little question for our fellow Christian people;

Since Christianity is based on the fact that Jesus is the son of God.

And Christians have the bible, which they normally should accept. But why are there a contradicitions in the bible about Jesus (pbuh)?

The easiest example that comes up within me is;

Matthew Chapter 1 verse 1-2

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begot Isaac, and Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brethren.

And it goes further, but just the first verse is enough.

Now Jesus, son of David?

You need to understand 1st century colloquialisms. Many Jews considered themselves the "sons of Abraham" too, even though intermediary forefathers aren't mentioned.

I hope you have something better than that.

By the way, here's something for you:

Allah or Jesus?

by Rev. Rick Mathes (he is heavily involved in prison ministry)

Last month I (Rick Mathes) attended my annual training session that's required for
maintaining my state prison security clearance.

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who
explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.
The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with
a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and
answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world.

And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they
are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation,
he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers
of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your
faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and
command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand
in the cookie jar.

He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine the
Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.
Charles Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and
your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me.

Let me ask you a question.

Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go
to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to
Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Wow easyrider, I really liked that. I have not seen too many people on here arguing for Christianity. You statement was a relief as it showed me that I was not the only person out here arguing this particular viewpoint.

[strike]



Christianity; in the dictionary says that it is 1) someone who believes in Jesus and the Christ and 2) also pertaining to or derived from Jesus or his teachings.


But He, jesus didn't teach christianity. He taught the Torah. it could be no other way.so something has been altered from what He taught in His message and what christianity has today.

His geneology is in Luke chapter 3 also.

To the christian the fact that the Messiah HAS to be a Hebrew/Jew becomes a problem that gets in the way the Good News has been altered. the christian gospel doesn't come from, or represent the Bible.

jesus is a fictitious name for the one true king of kings.
Who was and is, and will be the "King of the Jews". [/strike]

[tambi]

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who
explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.
The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with
a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and
answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world.

And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they
are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation,
he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers
of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your
faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and
command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand
in the cookie jar.

He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

what bull. do you actually believe that correctional authorities would allow a Jihadi Imam to preach to prisonoers??

and besides, if killling non muslims in the name of God really was an Islamic religious duty, I doubt it would still be around today, let alone in non arab nations

[Abdullah]

A Zion Christian Church leader has been charged with rape for apparently taking a 12-year-old church member as his second wife when he could no longer have sex with his pregnant wife.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Afri ... 93,00.html


How come this guy wasnt punished in accordance with biblical Law? The Bible says:

"And the man that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10)

Does any Christian on this earth follow the rules of the bible or do they just follow their own rules?

[Abdullah]

On the other hand, when there is an islamic law applied on a country the law has to be respected, f.e. the hand of a criminal who stole "non-food" should be cut off.

Now as the bible says in Deutronomy 25:11-12

11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets;

12 then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall have no pity.

Hmm, good law. Any Christian ever read this?