Causes of Christian decline

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:58 am

While Christianity is still alive and dominant in the United States, in many other parts of the world, its been on a steady decline. There have been many postulated causes for this. Some of the most popular are:
-increased literacy and education has led to much critical inquiry into various
aspects of scripture capitalizing on the many discrepancies to point to logical
conclusions that it is mere myth, no more credible than the Roman Gods.
-scientific advancements have dispelled the occurrences of much of scripture
-society has reached a point where life isn't measured by the days until the final
reappearance of Christ. Generations are no longer living like Christ will return
tomorrow, as such, religion takes a back seat to todays life.
-the advancement of medicine has effectively explained many diseases and
disorders and offered treatments and cures in the form of natural medicine
rather than the ancient "snake oil" miracles.
-society has changed so dramatically that the average family has not the time to
devote to religion. Or todays society has reached a point where few things
aren't occurring 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, so adhering to many of the
principles in religious doctrine is simply impossible.
-and my favorite, mankind has gotten so weary of trying to figure out which form
of Christianity (or any religion for that matter) is the proper form that it is less
mentally taxing and time consuming to just not even give it thought.

For debate:
1) Which of the above would you consider being the cause for the declining
religious community? Or is there another cause you might attribute to it?
2) Do you think God would be consider any of the above reasons justified or
would He still hold you accountable even though the society now raising you is
the one that has perpetuated this decline and has passed these same values
onto you. In other words, would He be forgiving of the generation that currently
has to have a 2 income source just to make ends meet and as such, has allowed
religion to take a backseat? And what of the future generations that have these
same principles passed on to them? They know no better.

alexiarose · Post by **alexiarose** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:18 pm

twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:If Christianity is declining, then the only one to blame for this would be Christ. If He was to put in an appearance every once in a while, then maybe faith wouldn't give away to facts.
I am not real sure what you are saying, but for God to do anything he purposed, numbers are irrelevant. So "declining" numbers does not in any way imply powerlessness. But, what i am reading is that your faith is not a fact....am I misunderstanding?
My point was the longer someone is absent physically, the less impact that person has in the present and future. The greater the impact the person had when they were present, the greater chance for it to be twisted into knots. God had interactions with man until 2000+ years ago. Since then, silence in regards to any grand scale presence, God has evaporated. The instinct Christians share about the existence of God is not something they can use as unequivocal proof of His existence.
And no, you aren't misunderstanding my post, faith isn't fact. It is merely faith. When it is proven fact, it is fact.
Then God is not fact?

Not when evaluated by the standards we currently use to verify facts. If I tried to pass God off as fact in any essays from my final exams for the past semester, I would have failed. Even in philosophy.

twobitsmedia · Post by **twobitsmedia** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:26 pm

alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:If Christianity is declining, then the only one to blame for this would be Christ. If He was to put in an appearance every once in a while, then maybe faith wouldn't give away to facts.
I am not real sure what you are saying, but for God to do anything he purposed, numbers are irrelevant. So "declining" numbers does not in any way imply powerlessness. But, what i am reading is that your faith is not a fact....am I misunderstanding?
My point was the longer someone is absent physically, the less impact that person has in the present and future. The greater the impact the person had when they were present, the greater chance for it to be twisted into knots. God had interactions with man until 2000+ years ago. Since then, silence in regards to any grand scale presence, God has evaporated. The instinct Christians share about the existence of God is not something they can use as unequivocal proof of His existence.
And no, you aren't misunderstanding my post, faith isn't fact. It is merely faith. When it is proven fact, it is fact.
Then God is not fact?
Not when evaluated by the standards we currently use to verify facts. If I tried to pass God off as fact in any essays from my final exams for the past semester, I would have failed. Even in philosophy.

I agree that God is not testable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit. That, to me, does not mean God is not fact. It just means he is not testable by those methods. Those who require evidence for faith want the testable scientific God, or so they say. As a philosophy major I would question any educational organization that exempts philosophizing about God. Many Greek philosophers did.

alexiarose · Post by **alexiarose** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:45 pm

twobitsmedia wrote:
I agree that God is not tetsable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit.

Failure of science or failure of God?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:50 pm

twobitsmedia wrote:I agree that God is not tetsable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit. That, to me, does not mean God is not fact.

Interesting idea. Let's pursue Is there a good reason to believe in the untestable?

twobitsmedia · Post by **twobitsmedia** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:56 pm

alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
I agree that God is not tetsable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit.
Failure of science or failure of God?

"Failure" may be too strong, but yes it is directed toward science: it is unable. God identified himself as "I Am." I am just not thinking that God has his identity wrapped up in scientific methodology.

alexiarose · Post by **alexiarose** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:00 pm

twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
I agree that God is not tetsable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit.
Failure of science or failure of God?
"Failure" may be too strong, but yes it is directed toward science: it is unable. God identified himself as "I Am." I am just not thinking that God has his identity wrapped up in scientific methodology.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Is it the failure of science to prove God is a fact or is it a failure of God to prove God is fact?

servant · Post by **servant** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:17 pm

While Christianity is still alive and dominant in the United States, in many other parts of the world, its been on a steady decline.

Lets have some facts guys:

Southern Baptist Convention had 8.7 million members in 1960. Now they have 16.4 million.

Institute of Religion and Democracy, 2005

Lets look at some other countries around the world. Only about a century ago Africa had about 10 percent people who claimed to be Christian. Today about 50 percent claim Christianity as their faith. That's an increase from 10 million in 1900 to more than 350 million today. Uganda has an estimated 20 million Christians and is projected to have 50 million by the middle of this century.

Jenkins, The Next Christendom, 2-3

What about China? Even with limitations it is estimated there are 100 million Christians. At current growth rates it appears that in just a few decades China will become the largest Christian country in the world.

"Jesus in Beijing" by David Aikman

Christianity is growing and strong.

twobitsmedia · Post by **twobitsmedia** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:19 pm

alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
I agree that God is not tetsable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit.
Failure of science or failure of God?
"Failure" may be too strong, but yes it is directed toward science: it is unable. God identified himself as "I Am." I am just not thinking that God has his identity wrapped up in scientific methodology.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Is it the failure of science to prove God is a fact or is it a failure of God to prove God is fact?

Whether it is a failure of science can be debatable. Some would say it is not an area that science should be involved in. Many believe, however, that God does not exist because science has NOT provided evidence. So, maybe it would be safe to fault science for not making itself clear. However, science also has "philosophical" schools of thought which I am sure do not help in creating a clear concise message of purpose. (Not unlike religion).

As for the second part of the question, is it a failure of God? I say No. If one does not try, they do not fail. It would be if He ever made an effort to and then was not able to. He, clearly, has not made the effort. He inspired the Genesis writers to write about how He created the heavens and earth, with NO explanation of where He came from.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:53 pm

twobitsmedia wrote:
alexiarose wrote:
twobitsmedia wrote:
I agree that God is not tetsable by scientific methodology. That is the failure of science in that is is unable to test Spirit.
Failure of science or failure of God?
"Failure" may be too strong, but yes it is directed toward science: it is unable. God identified himself as "I Am." I am just not thinking that God has his identity wrapped up in scientific methodology.

Tell me, do you fully understand the 'I Am' statement in genesis. Do you know that in the original hebrew, it was a pun?

alexiarose · Post by **alexiarose** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:44 pm

servant wrote:
What about China? Even with limitations it is estimated there are 100 million Christians. At current growth rates it appears that in just a few decades China will become the largest Christian country in the world.

"Jesus in Beijing" by David Aikman

Christianity is growing and strong.

Great, China can have Christianity and it will work well considering infanticide isn't exactly discouraged in the OT.