How can I know that there is a God?

[McCulloch]

I've been debating many issues here for some time now, but the single most important one, in my opinion is this. There are those who claim that they know that God exists. How does one come to that knowledge? Do they really know that God exists or do they simply suppose or assume that God exists?

If your answer is that I cannot know, then you are as much of an agnostic as I am. If you answer is that some holy book says so, then you have only pushed the question onto that book. I also have what I think is the second most important question.

How can I know that there is a God?

[Goose]

Some Christians claim that they are sure that God exists.

I want to know why.

1. Because I've experienced His presence.
2. Because of the evidence found in the Bible.
3. Because of the testimony of answered prayer.
4. Because of the testimony of others that have had similar experiences.
5. Because of the arguments for God's existence.

[rusty]

McCulloch wrote:
Sorry to disappoint. There is no hidden agenda. Some Christians claim that they are sure that God exists. I want to know why. As an agnostic, don't you?

Due to the course that my life took from High School on, I was exposed to a tremendous amount of "wrong." I reached a point where I could no longer accept, justify, or understand "wrong." I made a firm decision, I said to myself, "If 'wrong' and 'right' exist, then God must exist." This is how I know God exists. I decided to find out what God says is wrong and what He says is right. Fortunately, the Bible was the first place I looked. After a lot of prayer and seeking confirmations, my confidence has grown. The Bible has made a tremendous amount of sense. I no longer question what is right and what is wrong. I know it.

This has happened after my tearful and earnest request to be baptised into God's family when I was almost eight years old. I never got the full and good teaching about God growing up, so I was doing the same things everyone else was doing. But, I did have enough teaching to be gifted with a clear vision or natural feeling about good and bad, right and wrong, and love. I had some friends and our group was very close. This closeness, I yearn for today. But I find none, except my wife and family, who understand and appreciate my confidence and demeanor.

The church should be built on this "closeness" with a common understanding of righteousness. A mature understanding of love and righteousness. There is much joy and happy memories to be found in a "close" family, and a "close" church. But, the church is weak and fearful. Many people are too sensitive to what others may think of them, or what they think others may think of them. This sort of puts up walls. I think this is due to primarily a lack of understanding scripture and confidence in it. The church has become defensive and somewhat withdrawn. Their doors are open, but the fellowship, friendship, and closeness is rarely there. At least, from my vantage point. It is unfortunate that a discussion of scripture may deteriorate into a disagreement as well.

I'd like to wake up the church. I'd like to wake up fathers. I know what it is like to miss out on raising my own sons. I missed out on the most lovely part of life..... I would like to help other fathers avoid that...... After all, is there anything better in life than a loving family under a loving God?
rusty

[upallnite]

Some Christians claim that they are sure that God exists.

I want to know why.

1. Because I've experienced His presence.
2. Because of the evidence found in the Bible.
3. Because of the testimony of answered prayer.
4. Because of the testimony of others that have had similar experiences.
5. Because of the arguments for God's existence.

1. What can I do to experience his presence? Keep in mind I have tried in the past. Heck I even made a thread about it. I think the theists gave up on me in that thread.

2. What evidence does the bible provide that will lead me to a belief in god? Keep in mind I do not belive claims without evidence.

3. What about the unanswered prayers? What about all the amputees?

4. What about the people that have had different experiences? Do only people that agree with you count as credible?

5. None of the arguments for gods existence on this site have led me to belive god exists. Is there one that has not been debated here?

[MrWhy]

just use your head and think about it
ask your self these questions

- if there is a god ,, why does he created us ??
- who created the first person?
- who created the first animal?(chimpanzees , lions ...etc)
- who created the first jinn ?
- who created the sun and the moon and the sky ??
somebody created these things but who is that !! ?? and why he did that !! ??

so when you ask these questions your self go and read quraan to know the answers

best wishes
brock

These are not valid questions. They are like asking where does a circle start. There was no first person, chimp, or lion. Evolution works in such a long gradual process it may be impossible to identify the first of any creature.

[justifyothers]

Yes, I think/believe/hope there is a God. But you and I both know that's all there is to that. Are you leading into something ?

Sorry to disappoint. There is no hidden agenda. Some Christians claim that they are sure that God exists. I want to know why. As an agnostic, don't you?

Well, I think I know God exists as much as anyone CAN know. This is included in my first response. But i think what you're looking for will go on and on.....
I know God exists because of the reasons I listed:
Communication with Him.

Answered prayers that cannot (IMO) be counted as coincidence any longer.

Validation of both communication and prayer through many, sometimes daily situations. These situations compound themselves to justify my trust/belief/faith.

The change within me that includes levels of compassion and love that are deeper than I am capable of on my own.

But, as you know, I cannot prove any of this to you.
What caused you to stop believing in Him?

[MrWhy]

Up to this point there is no way to know there is a god. Anything as prevalent and profound as a creator god would be obvious to everyone. It would be as obvious as a tree or a rock. If you line up a million people and ask them to observe a rock, almost 100% will say it exist and is obvious. Nothing like that would occur if you asked the same question about a god. The "he's there if you look" is a clear piece of rationalization. It makes no sense something that significant is known to many, but completely missed by a large number. There's a huge hunk of inconsistency there. Somethings wrong with this scene.

The most important question involves scripture claims that a god exist. That question is: What does any scripture contain that required input from a god? God revealed scripture is the only proposed evidence that a god exists, and what that god expects from it's servants. To ask "How can I know that there is a god?" suggest you've partially bought into the idea. Why do we even consider an idea so profound yet lacking any evidence? The issue starts with human composed scripture/stories about a god. It should go no further until there's clear substantial evidence that's obvious to everyone.

[MrWhy]

Yes, I think/believe/hope there is a God. But you and I both know that's all there is to that. Are you leading into something ?

Sorry to disappoint. There is no hidden agenda. Some Christians claim that they are sure that God exists. I want to know why. As an agnostic, don't you?

Well, I think I know God exists as much as anyone CAN know. This is included in my first response. But i think what you're looking for will go on and on.....
I know God exists because of the reasons I listed:
Communication with Him.

Answered prayers that cannot (IMO) be counted as coincidence any longer.

Validation of both communication and prayer through many, sometimes daily situations. These situations compound themselves to justify my trust/belief/faith.

The change within me that includes levels of compassion and love that are deeper than I am capable of on my own.

But, as you know, I cannot prove any of this to you.
What caused you to stop believing in Him?

These effects you list can be caused by just the belief. The actual existence of a god is not necessary. You greatly underestimate the deception the human mind is capable of. It can rationalize/justify almost any effect or action.

[justifyothers]

Yes, I think/believe/hope there is a God. But you and I both know that's all there is to that. Are you leading into something ?

Sorry to disappoint. There is no hidden agenda. Some Christians claim that they are sure that God exists. I want to know why. As an agnostic, don't you?

Well, I think I know God exists as much as anyone CAN know. This is included in my first response. But i think what you're looking for will go on and on.....
I know God exists because of the reasons I listed:
Communication with Him.

Answered prayers that cannot (IMO) be counted as coincidence any longer.

Validation of both communication and prayer through many, sometimes daily situations. These situations compound themselves to justify my trust/belief/faith.

The change within me that includes levels of compassion and love that are deeper than I am capable of on my own.

But, as you know, I cannot prove any of this to you.
What caused you to stop believing in Him?

These effects you list can be caused by just the belief. The actual existence of a god is not necessary. You greatly underestimate the deception the human mind is capable of. It can rationalize/justify almost any effect or action.

Not so. The list I gave cannot totally be caused by merely the belief of an imaginary being.

I don't underestimate the human mind at all. It can just as easily deny any effect or action. The human mind is not the only thing relevent . There are other aspects to humanity.

[MrWhy]

These effects you list can be caused by just the belief. The actual existence of a god is not necessary. You greatly underestimate the deception the human mind is capable of. It can rationalize/justify almost any effect or action.

Not so. The list I gave cannot totally be caused by merely the belief of an imaginary being.

It's not just the effect of imagination. It's the ability to find relationships if they are desired or fit existing ideas. What a person wants or needs is justified by the ability to reason. Emotion comes first, followed and supported by the rational processes. I doubt that few became believers without first arriving at an emotional point of needing to believe.

Those doubts, and questions with no answers just nibble away at reason until satisfying results arrive.

People use the "why" word until they get an answer they like, then stop asking.

Be suspicious of answers that make you feel good.

Which item on your list do you think cannot be manipulated by need?

[McCulloch]

1. Because I've experienced His presence.

I have no idea what that means. However, since God has decided to exclude me from this experience, it is no reason for me to believe.

2. Because of the evidence found in the Bible.

What evidence? The alleged fulfilled prophesy falls dismally short of proof.

3. Because of the testimony of answered prayer.

When this is tested, it fails miserably. There seems to be as many answered prayers as there are unanswered prayers.

4. Because of the testimony of others that have had similar experiences.

Group think anyone?

5. Because of the arguments for God's existence.

Which ones? The best that any of the ones I've seen can possibly manage is to provide evidence for the Deist type of God.