Would you sacrifice your own son like Abraham was ready to

[Jagella]

I was studying Hebrews 11 today which praises people of faith. Verses 17-19 of that chapter lauds Abraham's obedience to God as Abraham was ready to murder his own son Isaac. (The original grotesque tale appears in Genesis 22.)

Would you murder your own son if God asked you to?

Yes--Well, this answer speaks for itself.

No--Then you admit that your religion is immoral.

I think I have faith of my own that none of the Christians here will give a straight, honest answer to this question. You will stonewall and do everything you can to divert attention away from this issue. You know that your religion is immoral but will never admit it.

[benchwarmer]

Well, my answer is a bit specific. Hypothetically if I 100% knew it was God talking to me and I had absolute faith in the goodness of God, I would only sacrifice my son if I could do it in a painless way. I would not slit my son's throat and let him bleed and suffocate to death.

In this hypothetical situation, I would ask God to do it Himself. Why put me through the torture of killing someone? You want my son, you are a god, you do it.

As to the OP, NO! I would not set out to kill my son (or anyone) because someone else (including voices from invisible entities) told me to do it. We call that mentally unstable nowadays.

I love the apologetic arguments that try to tap dance around the fact that the story portrays this god asking a human to kill another human. What actually happens in the end really has no relevance.

Perhaps God should have listened more closely to His son:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.�

16 “Are you still so dull?� Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Basically, God was sinning by planning and asking someone to murder their son. Before we get caught up in word play - murder is the premeditated killing of another human - which definitely qualifies here.

Yet another gaping hole in the 'logic' contained in the Bible.

[dianaiad]

Would you murder your own son if God asked you to?

First off I'd be shocked that God, well... actually did something. As soon as a gathered my senses, I'd grab my son and run explaining to him that the bizarre stories we've heard of this murderous monster might be true. "Run, hide!"

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[ttruscott]

murder is the premeditated killing of another human - which definitely qualifies here.

Murder is the illegal or the legally unjustified killing of another. Your conclusion fails as wrongly defined.

[Tcg]

Done properly, your son would not bleed and suffocate to death. He would be dead in 2 seconds.

Wait. You are suggesting there is a proper way to kill one's own son? Done right, it only takes two seconds. You are suggesting that is the right way to murder your own son? A two second murder is okay with you? Please explain.

[benchwarmer]

murder is the premeditated killing of another human - which definitely qualifies here.

Murder is the illegal or the legally unjustified killing of another. Your conclusion fails as wrongly defined.

Well, technically it's both premeditated and illegal. So, fair point.

Sacrificing humans is illegal where I live. Your point will likely be that this God gets to arbitrarily decide which killings are legal all by itself. Rather convenient get of of jail card for this repulsive story IMHO.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 105 by benchwarmer]

Sacrificing humans is illegal where I live. Your point will likely be that this God gets to arbitrarily decide which killings are legal all by itself.

Some apologists argue that God doesn't arbitrarily make moral decisions but makes decisions based on his innate goodness. I'm left wondering how apologists can say God has innate goodness if there is no standard beyond God by which we can understand his goodness. If there is such a standard of goodness beyond God, then we can't base our moral decisions on God's commands but on that standard. If we base goodness on what God commands, then we run into the tautology: God's commands are good because they are good.

[bluethread]

Done properly, your son would not bleed and suffocate to death. He would be dead in 2 seconds.

Wait. You are suggesting there is a proper way to kill one's own son? Done right, it only takes two seconds. You are suggesting that is the right way to murder your own son? A two second murder is okay with you? Please explain.

I was addressing to question of suffocation. A proper sacrifice, regardless of what is sacrificed, does not involve suffocation. Regarding proper execution, that is a well established science. From the executioners of the French revolution to modern executions, it is expected that the executioner minimize suffering.

[Tcg]

Done properly, your son would not bleed and suffocate to death. He would be dead in 2 seconds.

I was addressing to question of suffocation. A proper sacrifice, regardless of what is sacrificed, does not involve suffocation.

You seem to be avoiding the question I asked. Do you consider it proper to kill one's own son? Is this answer based on the method used? In other words, do you consider it acceptable if the death is achieved in 2 seconds?

Regarding proper execution, that is a well established science. From the executioners of the French revolution to modern executions, it is expected that the executioner minimize suffering.

I didn't ask about execution. I asked about killing one's own son and your justification for such action. I'll ask again, do you consider such a killing acceptable as long as the victim doesn't suffer for more than 2 seconds?

[bluethread]

Done properly, your son would not bleed and suffocate to death. He would be dead in 2 seconds.

I was addressing to question of suffocation. A proper sacrifice, regardless of what is sacrificed, does not involve suffocation.

You seem to be avoiding the question I asked. Do you consider it proper to kill one's own son? Is this answer based on the method used? In other words, do you consider it acceptable if the death is achieved in 2 seconds?

No, I am not making that point. Human sacrifice, apart from self sacrifice, is not proper. That is part of the lesson of the story.

Regarding proper execution, that is a well established science. From the executioners of the French revolution to modern executions, it is expected that the executioner minimize suffering.

I didn't ask about execution. I asked about killing one's own son and your justification for such action. I'll ask again, do you consider such a killing acceptable as long as the victim doesn't suffer for more than 2 seconds?

I answered that question, even though I was talking about humane means of killing and not that issue in the statement you quoted.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 108 by Tcg]

You seem to be avoiding the question I asked. Do you consider it proper to kill one's own son?

In the context of Judaism and Christianity, the answer is yes. God is the ultimate authority and is to be obeyed in all circumstances. I started this thread with the goal of exposing the dangers of theistic belief, and I believe I have met that goal.