Biblical Inerrancy

[Midwestguy]

There are times when people talk about the "inerrancy" of the Bible. Is there a commonly agreed definition of the word? Does it mean the Bible is without error? If so, which manuscript does one rely on to arrive at this conclusion?

For example, in Revelation chapter 13 the number of the beast is stated as 666 while other manuscripts have 616. Which is inerrant and why?

I remain that curious but confused Midwest Guy.

[perplexed101]

oops

[perplexed101]

Once again, your assumption is only based on your flawed religious view

we shall see

Unfortunately, not only you are combining apples and oranges but you also failed to read between the lines "A" quickening spirit vs. THE quickening Spirit that could have made difference to your capacity. The text specifically did NOT use the definite article "the" to described the last Adam was THE (?) quickening Spirit, agree?

lol, splitting apples and oranges? with using "a" and "the"?

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

does that satisfy the "a" for you? LOL unless you are daft, you would see that the Father is a God and God is a Spirit unless you want to claim that you have seen the Spirit Father Himself with the naked eye!!!

Do you just wing the scriptures or do you actually study every word and the history behind it and how each and every word is translated is brought from hebrew to greek? Does Septuagint ring a bell? The second or last doesnt matter just like your example of the "a" or "the", Jesus Christ is also the Alpha and Omega but that is ALL you are able to distinguish. Jesus Christ is depicted as being last Adam by figurative reasons, and unless you dont read the scriptures, you wouldnt know that Jesus was born out of the womb from Mary by "a" or "the" dont matter for if God is a Spirit then logically, God (if you have any inkling whatsoever you would connect the dots together as a Spirit is also The Spirit).

Symbolic? Perhaps, you really need to pray for more wisdom and understanding. I have provided you with the actual text showing literally your error, yet, you still did not learn Please read it again (below) very slowly.

and i suppose your eye does not even have a splinter huh? everyone is wrong except you, right? you wont look at the original language with the definitions that correspond with them. That is what people would highly regard as someone who is only stuck within the english written bias.

Very Solid contrary your distorted view. Here's why...

Jesus is YHWH - the Son of the Invisible Father (name- unknown)!

ROFL, When Jesus Christ spoke to the Jews, speaking in reference upheld to jewish religon, then implying that His Father is YHWH but at the same time Jesus is claiming He was YHWH then your line of thought is flawed unless you are speaking towards prov. 8:22-36 which is written in the Septuagint.
If you are stating that Jesus was trying to shun out His Father and taking His place, which He repeatedly claimed He had a Father in heaven as well then the Septuagint is not only false, according to you, but then that would be saying that Jesus Christ is a LIAR no matter how you look at it.

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

hmm.. septuagint, the following was written in greek:

Pro 8:22 κύριος ἔκτισέν με ἀρχὴν ὁδῶν αὐτοῦ εἰς ἔργα αὐτοῦ,
Pro 8:23 πρὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος ἐθεμελίωσέν με ἐν ἀρχῇ,
Pro 8:24 πρὸ τοῦ τὴν γῆν ποιῆσαι καὶ πρὸ τοῦ τὰς ἀβύσσους ποιῆσαι, πρὸ τοῦ προελθεῖν τὰς πηγὰς τῶν ὑδάτων,
Pro 8:25 πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη ἑδρασθῆναι, πρὸ δὲ πάντων βουνῶν γεννᾷ με.
Pro 8:26 κύριος ἐποίησεν χώρας καὶ ἀοικήτους καὶ ἄκρα οἰκούμενα τῆς ὑπ᾿ οὐρανόν.
Pro 8:27 ἡνίκα ἡτοίμαζεν τὸν οὐρανόν, συμπαρήμην αὐτῷ, καὶ ὅτε ἀφώριζεν τὸν ἑαυτοῦ θρόνον ἐπ᾿ ἀνέμων.
Pro 8:28 ἡνίκα ἰσχυρὰ ἐποίει τὰ ἄνω νέφη, καὶ ὡς ἀσφαλεῖς ἐτίθει πηγὰς τῆς ὑπ᾿ οὐρανὸν
Pro 8:29 καὶ ἰσχυρὰ ἐποίει τὰ θεμέλια τῆς γῆς,
Pro 8:30 ἤμην παρ᾿ αὐτῷ ἁρμόζουσα, ἐγὼ ἤμην ᾗ προσέχαιρεν. καθ᾿ ἡμέραν δὲ εὐφραινόμην ἐν προσώπῳ αὐτοῦ ἐν παντὶ καιρῷ,
Pro 8:31 ὅτε ἐυφραίνετο τὴν οἰκουμένην συντελέσας καὶ ἐνευφραίνετο ἐν υἱοῖς ἀνθρώπων.
Pro 8:32 νῦν οὖν, υἱέ, ἄκουέ μου.
Pro 8:33 (OMITTED TEXT)
Pro 8:34 μακάριος ἀνήρ, ὃς εἰσακούσεταί μου, καὶ ἄνθρωπος, ὃς τὰς ἐμὰς ὁδοὺς φυλάξει ἀγρυπνῶν ἐπ᾿ ἐμαῖς θύραις καθ᾿ ἡμέραν τηρῶν σταθμοὺς ἐμῶν εἰσόδων·
Pro 8:35 αἱ γὰρ ἔξοδοί μου ἔξοδοι ζωῆς, καὶ ἑτοιμάζεται θέλησις παρὰ κυρίου.
Pro 8:36 οἱ δὲ εἰς ἐμὲ ἁμαρτάνοντες ἀσεβοῦσιν τὰς ἑαυτῶν ψυχάς, καὶ οἱ μισοῦντές με ἀγαπῶσιν θάνατον.

greek old testament [Septuagint]

Which after translation only establishes my point!!!

Are you that shortsighted that your claim wouldnt have crossed my mind?
It's OBVIOUSLY clear that you do not know what you talking about for even Jesus Christ Himself read from the scriptures and would have stated those scriptures as being FALSE or FRAUD instead of stating FULFILLED. If you have read proverbs 8:22-36 that is in the septuagint that was commonly read in the synagogues and commonly held in belief, then perhaps you wouldnt be so flawed in thinking that it REEKS.

How about the hebrew old testament (Tanach)?

Pro 8:22 יהוה קנני ראשׁית דרכו קדם מפעליו מאז׃
Pro 8:23 מעולם נסכתי מראשׁ מקדמי־ארץ׃
Pro 8:24 באין־תהמות חוללתי באין מעינות נכבדי־מים׃
Pro 8:25 בטרם הרים הטבעו לפני גבעות חוללתי׃
Pro 8:26 עד־לא עשׂה ארץ וחוצות וראשׁ עפרות תבל׃
Pro 8:27 בהכינו שׁמים שׁם אני בחוקו חוג על־פני תהום׃
Pro 8:28 באמצו שׁחקים ממעל בעזוז עינות תהום׃
Pro 8:29 בשׂומו לים חקו ומים לא יעברו־פיו בחוקו מוסדי ארץ׃
Pro 8:30 ואהיה אצלו אמון ואהיה שׁעשׁעים יום יום משׂחקת לפניו בכל־עת׃
Pro 8:31 משׂחקת בתבל ארצו ושׁעשׁעי את־בני אדם׃
Pro 8:32 ועתה בנים שׁמעו־לי ואשׁרי דרכי ישׁמרו׃
Pro 8:33 שׁמעו מוסר וחכמו ואל־תפרעו׃
Pro 8:34 אשׁרי אדם שׁמע לי לשׁקד על־דלתתי יום יום לשׁמר מזוזת פתחי׃
Pro 8:35 כי מצאי מצאי חיים ויפק רצון מיהוה׃
Pro 8:36 וחטאי חמס נפשׁו כל־משׂנאי אהבו מות׃


Let's compare the above with the following:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Let me hear you awsome expertise, for your english language goes beyond the level of comprehension that would agree to perpetuate a lie made by Jesus Christ Himself towards the written fulfillment of old testament SCRIPTURE, for it cant go beyond the scope of the english writ New Testament, RIGHT? i must be living with the galactically stupid and what you are telling me is divinely inspired. Divinely inspired to inform me that Jesus Christ maintained lies and had ties with illusions, Right?

Please exert your unwavering expertise to the following:

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
Mar 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

do you see that every one of those verses depict similarily by putting together in thought much similar as a figurative cohesion rather than literal constant? or are you going to reject that too?

Who do you think is thy Maker? The Holy One of Israel or thine Husband?

Answer: Jesus, known as YHWH in the Old Testament!

LOL, talk about twisting the verse!! and to state that im doing that. So, when Jesus himself said:

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Was He lying? did He LIE, while on the cross suffering for the sake of the people to be the LAST Adam who represents even Adam who was created from the dust of the earth? if you say He just said that because people would not understand, if He was only referring to Himself then the bottom line is that you are accusing Him of lying. Yes or No? Do you want to accuse Him as being a LIAR? i suppose you want to claim the Father was an earthly father that was before the world was and somehow he dont FIT being the FATHER The SPIRIT. Obviously, the intentions are clear for Jesus Christ Himself is ONLY acknowledging His Father.

Its written right there in ENGLISH-- is He a LIAR to you? Just a simple yes or no will suffice.

Is YHWH the Invisible Almighty God Father?

Answer: No, YHWH (or Jesus) is the Son of invisible God Father.

Etymology

tetragrammaton
c.1400, from Gk. (to) tetragrammaton "(the word) of four letters," from tetra- "four" + gramma (gen. grammatos) "letter, something written." The Hebrew divine name, transliterated as YHWH, usually vocalized in English as "Jehovah" or "Yahweh

יהוה
yehôvâh
BDB Definition:
Jehovah = “the existing One”
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H136
Part of Speech: noun proper deity
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1961
Same Word by TWOT Number: 484a

Source: Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Definitions

יהוה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'
From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the LORD. Compare H3050, H3069.

Strong's hebrew and greek definitions

That is the Father Jehovah



Christ meaing the Annointed One or basically "the Chosen One" or Messiah

Anointed
ANOINT'ED, pp. Smeared or rubbed with oil; set apart; consecrated with oil.

ANOINT'ED, n. The Messiah, or Son of God, consecrated to the great office of Redeemer; called the Lord's anointed.

websters 1828 dictionary

lets go back to John 17:5 but this time lets look it from the original language:


John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was


John 17:5 και2532 CONJ νυν3568 ADV δοξασον1392 V-AAM-2S με3165 P-1AS συ4771 P-2NS πατερ3962 N-VSM παρα3844 PREP σεαυτω4572 F-2DSM τη3588 T-DSF δοξη1391 N-DSF η3739 R-DSF ειχον2192 V-IAI-1S προ4253 PREP του3588 T-GSM τον3588 T-ASM κοσμον2889 N-ASM ειναι1511 V-PXN παρα3844 PREP σοι4671 P-2DS

Robinson/Pierpont Byzantine greek new testament with Strong's hebrew and greek defintions

Joh 17:5 And nowe glorifie me, thou Father, with thine owne selfe, with the glorie which I had with thee before the world was.

Geneva Bible 1587

Joh 17:5 και2532 CONJ νυν3568 ADV δοξασον1392 V-AAM-2S με3165 P-1AS συ4771 P-2NS πατερ3962 N-VSM παρα3844 PREP σεαυτω4572 F-2DSM τη3588 T-DSF δοξη1391 N-DSF η3739 R-DSF ειχον2192 V-IAI-1S προ4253 PREP του3588 T-GSM τον3588 T-ASM κοσμον2889 N-ASM ειναι1511 V-PXN παρα3844 PREP σοι4671 P-2DS

Textus Receptus Greek New Testament with Strong's hebrew and greek definitions

Now try to refute that if you can.

Now lets see you use a source other than just winging it in english and see if your expertise matches

[hiramabbi2]

does that satisfy the "a" for you? LOL unless you are daft, you would see that the Father is a God and God is a Spirit unless you want to claim that you have seen the Spirit Father Himself with the naked eye!!!

Dear Readers:

Notice, our opponent is trying hard to divert the issue to cover up his inadequacy in spiritual understanding? The Invisible God Father (name -unknown), who is a Spirit, is not the issue here but our Lord Jehovah, the Son of God, known as Jesus in the New Testament.

Seemingly, perplexed, would rather continue his fallacious style of argument, feeding us negative things that I don’t stand for, irrelevant to the discussion and not in anyway a contention.

Be that as it may, perplexed is covering up because s/he is afraid to defend his flawed religious belief that Jehovah is the Invisible God Father, who is a Spirit - for good reason - s/he lacks of spiritual guidance.

The following depicts a symbolic gesture much similar to your interpretation of the true light.

Symbolic? Perhaps, you really need to pray for more wisdom and understanding. I have provided you with the actual text showing literally your error, yet, you still did not learn Please read it again (below) very slowly.

REVELATION 21
23 And the city had no need of the sun (literal), neither of the moon(literal), to shine in it (literally) : for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof (literal).

and i suppose your eye does not even have a splinter huh? everyone is wrong except you, right? you wont look at the original language with the definitions that correspond with them. That is what people would highly regard as someone who is only stuck within the english written bias.

IOW perplexed101, are now admitting your ERROR?

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall (present progressive tense) he be called.

Redeemer the Holy One of Israel is also the true light, cant you see that?

where is your position now?

Very Solid contrary your distorted view. Here's why...

Jesus is YHWH - the Son of the Invisible Father (name- unknown)!

Who do you think is thy Maker? The Holy One of Israel or thine Husband?

Answer: Jesus, known as YHWH in the Old Testament!

Is YHWH the Invisible Almighty God Father?

Answer: No, YHWH (or Jesus) is the Son of invisible God Father.

Note: Insertions are mine.

Now try to refute that if you can.

Hiram Edited Quote:: Who do you think is thy Maker? The Holy One of Israel or thine Husband?

Answer: Jesus, known as YHWH in the Old Testament!

LOL, talk about twisting the verse!! and to state that im doing that. So, when Jesus himself said:

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Was He lying? did He LIE, while on the cross suffering for the sake of the people to be the LAST Adam who represents even Adam who was created from the dust of the earth? if you say He just said that because people would not understand, if He was only referring to Himself then the bottom line is that you are accusing Him of lying. Yes or No? Do you want to accuse Him as being a LIAR? i suppose you want to claim the Father was an earthly father that was before the world was and somehow he dont FIT being the FATHER The SPIRIT. Obviously, the intentions are clear for Jesus Christ Himself is ONLY acknowledging His Father.

Its written right there in ENGLISH-- is He a LIAR to you? Just a simple yes or no will suffice.

Again, ladies and gentleman, notice how perplexed101 EDITED the thrust of my official recorded position (see in red color) and start arguing things I don’t have problem with or stand for - in order to cover up his inability to defend his belief.

Here’s my official stand again perplexed, Jehovah is NOT the invisible God Father, who is a Spirit. Jehovah is Jesus, the Son of the Invisible God.

The invisible God Father (unknown) is a separate entity from his Son, Jehovah, who has a physical form.

NOTE: Failure to defend your position will result to admittance of your own flawed doctrinal religious views.

[perplexed101]

Dear Readers:

Notice, our opponent is trying hard to divert the issue to cover up his inadequacy in spiritual understanding? The Invisible God Father (name -unknown), who is a Spirit, is not the issue here but our Lord Jehovah, the Son of God, known as Jesus in the New Testament.

Basically, Hira wants to reach out to anyone who feels sorry for him and his flawed theory and lack of anything to back up his english writ claim.

Seemingly, perplexed, would rather continue his fallacious style of argument, feeding us negative things that I don’t stand for, irrelevant to the discussion and not in anyway a contention.

Obviously, Hira want to evade the important points to my prior post and is getting very desperate. Hira's sound doctrine has become hypothetical theory.

Be that as it may, perplexed is covering up because s/he is afraid to defend his flawed religious belief that Jehovah is the Invisible God Father, who is a Spirit - for good reason - s/he lacks of spiritual guidance.

Hira wants to spend time on the uses of "a" and "the" that would depict grammar from which he cannot prove by initial translation either way.

Symbolic? Perhaps, you really need to pray for more wisdom and understanding. I have provided you with the actual text showing literally your error, yet, you still did not learn Please read it again (below) very slowly.

Once again he uses the "i am holier than thou" , although, Hira's sound doctrine is no doctrine without consistent and well established documentation.

REVELATION 21
23 And the city had no need of the sun (literal), neither of the moon(literal), to shine in it (literally) : for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof (literal).

You are speaking in reference to prophecy where symbolism is rampant and speaking to future events not based from initial beginnings!!! but Hira cannot distinguish this either way.

Here’s my official stand again perplexed, Jehovah is NOT the invisible God Father, who is a Spirit. Jehovah is Jesus, the Son of the Invisible God.

Your "official stance" has no foundation other than surface guessing that lack consistency... Hira's biggest point is to use prophecy for "future events not yet happened" in Revelation and "true light" being used figuratively, while i on the other hand use consistent points of both old and new testament with hebrew and greek translation detailed and to be viewed openly and honestly. Hira has no authority whatsoever and wants to use the term YHWH that intially began in the 1400's while on the other hand go well beyond such a shallow date.

Since hira has not addressed the important points to my prior post then i will repost them for hira's benefit:

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

does that satisfy the "a" for you? LOL unless you are daft, you would see that the Father is a God and God is a Spirit unless you want to claim that you have seen the Spirit Father Himself with the naked eye!!! From this point it is obvious that the Father would then be used as "the" rather than "a".

Jesus Christ Himself read from the scriptures and would have stated those scriptures as being FALSE or FRAUD instead of stating FULFILLED. If you have read proverbs 8:22-36 that is in the Septuagint that was commonly read in the synagogues and commonly held in belief, then perhaps you wouldnt be so flawed in thinking that it REEKS. How about the hebrew old testament (Tanach)? Hira refuses to address this point

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
Mar 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

do you see that every one of those verses depict similarily by putting together in thought much similar as figurative cohesion rather than literal constant? or are you going to reject that too?

Here is where Hira does what Hira does not want me to do which would be to twist the scripture trying to render it as being hypothetical:

Who do you think is thy Maker? The Holy One of Israel or thine Husband?

Answer: Jesus, known as YHWH in the Old Testament!

So, when Jesus himself said:

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Was He lying? did He LIE, while on the cross suffering for the sake of the people to be the LAST Adam who represents even Adam who was created from the dust of the earth? if you say He just said that because people would not understand, if He was only referring to Himself then the bottom line is that you are accusing Him of lying. Yes or No? Do you want to accuse Him as being a LIAR? i suppose you want to claim the Father was an earthly father that was before the world was and somehow he dont FIT being the FATHER The SPIRIT. Obviously, the intentions are clear for Jesus Christ Himself is ONLY acknowledging His Father.

Put these two verses together and see if you get more than "true light"

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Yehovah (Jehovah) is the original translation in LORD not the obscure term like YHWH from the 1400's

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Obviously, Jesus Christ is being depicted as being in the image from the invisible God

1Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Rock translated from greek

πέτρα
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

G4074
Πέτρος
Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037)

NOTE: Christ is being depicted as being Petra rather than Petros

Gods (uppercase)

gods (lowercase)

אלהים
'ĕlôhîym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;

Take into consideration of Elohim (Gods) (uppercase by implication) as it is being used biblically 2605 times yet Hira's official stand is to reject that. So basically, that is like slapping Hira's official stance 2605 times. The question can then be asked: would Gods equate to strictly to "true light"?

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

i have thus far, from all my prior posts, narrowed this term Elohim (in uppercase)in comparison to what is documented as being two, while yet Hira remains to flop about haplessly lost within english related terms. Is it no wonder that evidence is running him around in circles?

That my friends is a sample of evidential analysis rather than "My official stand" (my hypothetical guess) while maintaining the blame game; a tactic resembling much like the spanish inquisition. Hira would rather pigeon hole scripture while yet remaining inconsistent and incoherent as the basis for strict english written testamony, using obscure terms used from the 1400's. The compilation of scripture never originated in the english language nor in the 1400's. The words used in english does not capture the true intent of the original language being conveyed. The english words in comparison to hebrew and greek words do not intermesh with words such as "Rock".

Once Hira realizes that Jehovah created His only begotten Son in the likeness of His invisible self before the beginning of the creation of the world, who was to be a Son of Man foreordained to be conceived from the virgin Mary, he will then understand the true intent of Elohim and when Jesus Christ stating that the Father and Son is to be dignified to be "One" but a lack of the basic understanding of the Old Testament can a person assert towards Hira's guessing game. Until then, the truth will remain to tell him he is wrong at the very least of 2605 times.

[hiramabbi2]

Dear Readers:
Notice, our opponent is trying hard to divert the issue to cover up his inadequacy in spiritual understanding? The Invisible God Father (name -unknown), who is a Spirit, is not the issue here but our Lord Jehovah, the Son of God, known as Jesus in the New Testament.

Basically, Hira wants to reach out to anyone who feels sorry for him and his flawed theory and lack of anything to back up his english writ claim.

Of course, as we could all see, our friend here continue to duck the issue that has been brought forth to him about “Jehovah” being the Son of God and not the Invisible God Father based on his distorted belief and reasoning. .

So far, No rebuttal from perplexed101, therefore, my post stand and is uncontested.

Be that as it may, perplexed is covering up because s/he is afraid to defend his flawed religious belief that Jehovah is the Invisible God Father, who is a Spirit - for good reason - s/he lacks of spiritual guidance.

Hira wants to spend time on the uses of "a" and "the" that would depict grammar from which he cannot prove by initial translation either way.

Again, NO REBUTTAL from perplexed101. ha ha ha

Symbolic? Perhaps, you really need to pray for more wisdom and understanding. I have provided you with the actual text showing literally your error, yet, you still did not learn Please read it again (below) very slowly.

REVELATION 21
23 And the city had no need of the sun (literal), neither of the moon(literal), to shine in it (literally) : for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof (literal).

You are speaking in reference to prophecy where symbolism is rampant and speaking to future events not based from initial beginnings!!! but Hira cannot distinguish this either way.

ha ha ha Whether it is a prophesy or not , it is still literal LIGHT refuting your flawed religious assumption.

Here’s my official stand again perplexed, Jehovah is NOT the invisible God Father, who is a Spirit. Jehovah is Jesus, the Son of the Invisible God.

Your "official stance" has no foundation other than surface guessing that lack consistency... Hira's biggest point is to use prophecy for "future events not yet happened" in Revelation and "true light" being used figuratively, while i on the other hand use consistent points of both old and new testament with hebrew and greek translation detailed and to be viewed openly and honestly. Hira has no authority whatsoever and wants to use the term YHWH that intially began in the 1400's while on the other hand go well beyond such a shallow date. .

Again, perhaps, perplexed101 forgot about the foundation I cited including his cited text Proverbs 8:22-36 (Gen 1; John 1:1-9; Rev.21:23)

Again, NO REBUTAL except his continued whining.

Since hira has not addressed the important points to my prior post then i will repost them for hira's benefit:

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

does that satisfy the "a" for you? LOL unless you are daft, you would see that the Father is a God and God is a Spirit unless you want to claim that you have seen the Spirit Father Himself with the naked eye!!! From this point it is obvious that the Father would then be used as "the" rather than "a".

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. .

As I have said before, there’s no contention on my part about God being an invisible Spirit .This is just perplexed101 fallacious style of argument to cover up his ignorance of the TRUTH of the Scripture.

The issue here, based on the Scripture, Jehovah is the Son of God and not the invisible God Father. Of course, Jehovah, the Son, is submissive to his Invisible Father’s will of whom perplexed assume him to be his God.

Yet, Jesus told those unbelievers like perplexed101 who pretend to know his invisible Father, the following statement…..

John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a LIAR like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Yehovah (Jehovah) is the original translation in LORD not the obscure term like YHWH from the 1400's .

Is that right? Perhaps, you did not complete your homework.... Look and read….

JEHOVAH - "false reading of the Hebrew YAHWEH" (Websters Collegiate Dictionary)

JEHOVAH - "is an erroneous form of the name of the God of Israel" (Encyclopedia Americana)

JEHOVAH - "false form of the divine name YAHWEH" (New Catholic Encyclopedia)

JEHOVAH - is an artificial form (The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible)

Once Hira realizes that Jehovah created His only begotten Son in the likeness of His invisible self before the beginning of the creation of the world, who was to be a Son of Man foreordained to be conceived from the virgin Mary, he will then understand the true intent of Elohim and when Jesus Christ stating that the Father and Son is to be dignified to be "One" but a lack of the basic understanding of the Old Testament can a person assert towards Hira's guessing game. Until then, the truth will remain to tell him he is wrong at the very least of 2605 times.

Once again, what perplexed101 could not comprehend, to this date, is the fact that “Jehovah” appeared unto Abraham, Jacob and Isaac in PHYSICAL FORM by the name of his God Father.

EXODUS 6
3 And I APPEARED unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, BUT by my name "JEHOVAH" was I not known to them.

This is a direct contradiction to perplexed own stand that Jehovah is God Father who is a Spirit -- whom “NO ONE HATH SEEN AT ANYTIME” yet clearly, the Bible document otherwise..

Therefore, our Lord "Jehovah" who APPEARED in PHYSICAL FORM could not have been the Invisible God Father, who is a Spirit -- as perplexed would like you to believe. "Jehovah" is the Son of God.

Here's more food for thought for "Jehovah" witnesses like perplexed101...

JEHOVAH - is an inaccurate reconstruction of the name of God in the Old Testament" (Merits Student Encyclopedia)

JEHOVAH - is an erroneous form on the divine name of the covenant God of Israel (The New Schaff-Herzogg Encyclopedia)

[perplexed101]

EXODUS 6
3 And I APPEARED unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, BUT by my name "JEHOVAH" was I not known to them.

Once again, hira quotes a scripture he does not know the meaning to lol.
If he would understand the translation of the text in regards to God Almighty, he might get a hint as to who is stating and says further the name Jehovah was HE not known to them ROFL. hira doesnt understand who 'Shaddai' is but i will let him ponder the meaning of that verse for i know very well for one, he cant translate the verse nor define the verse nor discern verse.

Ignorance runs amok yet again then spreads throughout collegiate works.
i'll give you a hint hira but only one:

Almighty=shaddai

Once again, hira remains oblivious to the "light" yet he claims to know all about it.

[hiramabbi2]

Once again, what perplexed101 could not comprehend, to this date, is the fact that “Jehovah” appeared unto Abraham, Jacob and Isaac in PHYSICAL FORM by the name of his God Father.

EXODUS 6
3 And I APPEARED unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, BUT by my name "JEHOVAH" was I not known to them.

This is a direct contradiction to perplexed own stand that Jehovah is God Father who is a Spirit -- whom “NO ONE HATH SEEN AT ANYTIME” yet clearly, the Bible document otherwise..

Therefore, our Lord "Jehovah" who APPEARED in PHYSICAL FORM could not have been the Invisible God Father, who is a Spirit -- as perplexed would like you to believe. "Jehovah" is the Son of God.

Once again, hira quotes a scripture he does not know the meaning to lol.
If he would understand the translation of the text in regards to God Almighty, he might get a hint as to who is stating and says further the name Jehovah was HE not known to them ROFL. hira doesnt understand who 'Shaddai' is but i will let him ponder the meaning of that verse for i know very well for one, he cant translate the verse nor define the verse nor discern verse.

Ignorance runs amok yet again then spreads throughout collegiate works.
i'll give you a hint hira but only one:

Almighty=shaddai

Once again, hira remains oblivious to the "light" yet he claims to know all about it.

LOL as we could all see, my dear readers, perplexed101 continue to dodge the issue that was brought forth to him and would rather agrue about the meaning of the name "Almighty" rather than facing the real issue - Jehovah APPEARING in person and has been seen many times in the Old Testament as documented in the Scripture!

Therefore, Jehovah could NOT have been the invisible God Father who is a Spirit (without physical form) but in TRUTH - the Son of the Invisble God.

Conclusion: Jehovah is Jesus himself, the Son of the Invisible God Father (name-unknown).

Another Biblical proof for your learning perplexed101?

Genesis 17
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (Heb. # 3068 = Jehovah) appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

This event was confirmed by our Lord Jesus in the New Testament

John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

There's but only ONE LORD and that Lord is Jehovah, the Son of God, better known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Only willingly ignorant will stumble to this TRUTH, as Apostle Peter' saying goes.

[perplexed101]

LOL, keep pondering over that scripture and i was fair when i gave you a hint so you are without excuse to go find out.

Genesis 17
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (Heb. # 3068 = Jehovah) appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

again, almighty is stated here again and this verse is depicting Jehovah in as One with for He further states "I am the Almighty God" Almighty = shaddai

This event was confirmed by our Lord Jesus in the New Testament

This event confirms you are ignorant

John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

LOL and according to you He was only "true light".

There's but only ONE LORD and that Lord is Jehovah, the Son of God, better known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

and there is an ignorant picking and choosing

Only willingly ignorant will stumble to this TRUTH, as Apostle Peter' saying goes

.

the light show still remains within your ignorance

[perplexed101]

LOL, keep pondering over that scripture and i was fair when i gave you a hint so you are without excuse to go find out.

Genesis 17
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (Heb. # 3068 = Jehovah) appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

again, almighty is stated here again and this verse is depicting Jehovah in as One with for He further states "I am the Almighty God" Almighty = shaddai

This event was confirmed by our Lord Jesus in the New Testament

This event confirms you are ignorant

John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

LOL and according to you He was only "true light".

There's but only ONE LORD and that Lord is Jehovah, the Son of God, better known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

and there is an ignorant picking and choosing

Only willingly ignorant will stumble to this TRUTH, as Apostle Peter' saying goes

.

the light show still remains within your ignorance and you seem to think you've studied scripture when you've only scratched the surface with english. ROFL, keep at it bub. When you see Jehovah and Almighty together, Jehovah is in as One with Almighty but you wont know that with english terms. ROFL.

[hiramabbi2]

Dear Readers:


According to John 1:18 and Col. 1:15

“NO MAN hath seen the God at ANY TIME” except the begotten Son - who’s at the bosom of the FATHER hath declared him - Christ is the image of the INVISIBBLE God Father.

In Exodus 6:2-3 Our Lord Jehovah testified TRUTH appearing on several occasions in HUMAN FORM…

“…I AM THE LORD (Jehovah) and I appeared unto Abraham unto Isaac and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty (the Invisible God Father): BUT…(pause) by my name Jehovah (the Son) I was NOT known to them.”

In fact God (Jehovah, the Son of God), thou Lord in the beginning (Heb. 1:10;9), even sat down in person with Abraham and also was wrestled by Jacob to get his blessing, mind you, right?

If NO man hath seen God at ANYTIME, then Jehovah could NOT have been the INVISIBLE God Father, since, He was FORMED into shape to be seen by us - being the messenger of the invisible God Father.

In Isaiah 43:10 Jehovah confirmed and declared that he was FORMED.

“…. Before me there was NO God formed, NEITHER there shall be after me.”

Notice how the sentence was constructed on a combination of two negative statements, therefore, it is positive!

He was FORMED into shape or glorified body even before He was sent into this world and MADE flesh.

If Jehovah is the Father and not the Son, in according to perplexed101 flawed belief, then we might as well throw out the biblical text that will contradict such wild imaginations.

NOT ONLY THE INVISIBLE GOD HATH NOT YET BEEN SEEN AT ANYTIME BUT ALSO NO ONE KNOWS HIS NAME AT THIS TIME.

In Revelation 3:12 Jesus, after his resurrection, testified and promised the following…

“Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall no more go out: and I will write upon him the name of My God…….”

Perhaps, perplexed101 had already overcometh , since, he continue to claim, to know the name of Jesus' Father - the Invisible God.

Yeah right, perplexed101 - I would suggest that you to go back and ask forgiveness for blaspheming Jehovah, the Son - being a (small) god to you.