Is the Resurrurredction really a historical fact, or not?

[polonius]

In Paul’s oldest and first epistle, written in 51-52 AD, he states without qualification that:

“Indeed, we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,* will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.g17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together* with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord.� 1 Thes 4:15-17

But it didn’t happen. Thus we must conclude that either Paul or the Lord were incorrect.

How much else of what Paul told us is also incorrect?

Recall, it was Paul who reported the Resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 written about 53-57 AD.

Was his story historically correct (did it actually happen) or is it just a story that was used by and embellished by the writers of the New Testament?

Since the basis of Christian belief is the historical fact of the Resurrection, let’s examine the evidence and see if the Resurrection really happened or can an analysis of the story show that it is improbable if not impossible.

Opinions?

[Claire Evans]

Didn't the RCC succeed in making you feel fearful and guilty? Those emotions that Jesus said we shouldn't have?

Jesus mentioned gnashing teeth and few being picked - does that make for comfort. Religion spreads fear.

The unrepentant are the ones who should fear. The fear I'm talking about is the fear of a believer who should not.

Are you referring to Matthew 22:11?

"Many are called, but few are chosen. That phrase reflects the scriptural balance between God’s sovereignty and man’s will. The invitations to the wedding feast went out to many, representative of everyone to whom the gospel message is sent. But few of those who heard the call were willing to accept it and thereby be among the chosen. The gospel invitation is sent to everyone, because it is not the Father’s will that a single person be excluded from His kingdom and perish in the outer darkness of hell (2 Pet. 3:9). But not everyone wants God, and many who claim to want Him do not want Him on His terms. Those who are saved enter God’s kingdom because of their willing acceptance of His sovereign, gracious provision. Those who are lost are excluded from the kingdom because of their willing rejection of that same sovereign grace."

In other words, they cannot be chosen because they will not accept Him.

https://www.gty.org/resources/bible-qna ... Are-Chosen

Please, explain this further. How does teaching kids about the love of Jesus, that sin is bad, and that god is love DRAW ONE INTO a life of Satan worship?

Preaching hatred about other Christians is hardly the work of Jesus. It more resembles Satan.

I suppose Jesus spreading hatred of what Pharisees did was not really nice, was it?

You mean, you don't believe it is Satanic. I do not know what is so hard to understand about the meaning of an inverted cross.

Your video is simply spreading lies to generate hatred. In this respect the maker is very close to being satanic. I have no idea why you defend it.

As I said, once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

Isn't Mary the most important in Catholicism?

Despite having things explained, you continue to talk as if you have not heard. Here is the correct Catholic viewpoint, not the one you've read about in your science fiction stuff.
Mary is HONOURED as being the mother of Jesus. She is NOT worshipped - only God is given worship. Latria is what is paid to God. (worship); hyperdulia is given to Mary (honour). But you continue to say:


" It is silly to elevate her to god status "

Of course it is. And they don't. So accept this.

See post 1072 which you purposely ignored.

Even most ex Catholics will never find fault with the RCC.

The fault was found with the Bible. The RC method is maybe the best of the bunch, but people leave because the basic biblical message about the bullying Yahweh is unacceptable. Details of sprinkling water here and there or honouring Joseph are minutiae. The resurrection, which we're discussing, is one more nail in the coffin of superstition. Your fantasies about upside down crosses and sweaty Satan roaming around are funny but hardly merit being taken seriously.

Of course it not going to be taken seriously by you. I think you suffer from cognitive dissonance. It's actually a common thing.

"Cognitive-dissonance is just one of many biases that work in our everyday lives. We don’t like to believe that we may be wrong, so we may limit our intake of new information or thinking about things in ways that don’t fit within our pre-existing beliefs. Psychologists call this “confirmation bias.�

We also don’t like to second-guess our choices, even if later they are proven wrong or unwise. By second-guessing ourselves, we suggest we may not be as wise or as right as we’ve led ourselves to believe. This may lead us to commit to a particular course of action and become insensitive to and reject alternative, perhaps better, courses that come to light. That’s why many people seek to avoid or minimize regret in their lives, and seek “closure� — imposing a definitive end to an event or relationship. It reduces the possibility of future cognitive dissonance."

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2 ... ourselves/

Here is a case study:

http://consciouslifenews.com/psychologi ... e/1122104/

No, Catholicism has an outward appearance of Christians but underneath, well, it's dark and evil.

It is amazing what watching a few funny videos will do to one's perspective. I laughed when I saw them but I suppose there are impressionable folk who take them seriously. I watch people at mass praying devoutly, old, sensible, pious folk who are not evil and don't subscribe to your vision of wickedness. You are as wrong as wrong can get. But there is a funny side to what you spout so let's just laugh.

As mentioned above, laughing is a defence mechanism because the truth is too much to bear.

Example:

"When Presented with the Truth, Those in Denial Become Angry, Indignant, Offended, and Ridicule the Messenger

"None of want to feel helpless and vulnerable. So, we want to defend ourselves. And, the way that we often do that is with anger. Then we become angry. And, when we become angry, then we become indignant. We become offended. We want to ridicule the messenger. We want to pathologize the messenger. And, we want to censor the messenger."

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1114 by Claire Evans]

The right way to do it to make the cross upright is to touch the forehead and then touch the naval then shoulders.

Just chiming in to say that this is how I did the cross, back in ye olden days. I don't recall ever once touching my throat when doing it.

[Talishi]

As I said, once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

It is unfortunate that the Catholic Church counts everyone ever baptized in the Church as Catholic, because they get the benefit of counting myself as an adherent for the purpose of boasting about their total numbers, when I have definitely closed my purse and walked out.

[marco]

I suppose Jesus spreading hatred of what Pharisees did was not really nice, was it?

You are the first Christian I have heard accusing Jesus of spreading hatred. You are justifying spreading hatred by saying "Christ says it's okay." Really.

As I said, once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

If you say so. I can disagree with Catholicism but I'm hardly going to accept criticism done in ignorance. I owe it to my previous training to correct errors.

Of course it not going to be taken seriously by you. I think you suffer from cognitive dissonance. It's actually a common thing.

Oh - I never had it till our discussion here. It must be infectious.

Thanks for the health diagnosis. I'll try to keep my temper and insecurities in check.

By the way, Catholics DO believe in the resurrection but I suppose that's Satan working deviously. Tsk tsk.

[marco]

Did you know that Vatican means, "Divining Serpent"?

What does serpent mean?

Revelation 20:2

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

It doesn't mean any such thing. Have you studied Latin? Vates is certainly a priest or prophet and the word cano means I sing. Vaticinus means prophetical. The verb: vaticinor means to foretell or sing out a prophecy. From this we have the name of the hill Mons Vaticanus, on which the Vatican is situated.

It has nothing to do with snake.

Your quote from Revelation may make sense to you.

There are plenty of things wrong with Catholicism and Christianity in general without inventing rubbish.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 1114 by Claire Evans]

The right way to do it to make the cross upright is to touch the forehead and then touch the naval then shoulders.

Just chiming in to say that this is how I did the cross, back in ye olden days. I don't recall ever once touching my throat when doing it.

I'm very glad to hear that. Some do it the right way.

[Claire Evans]

As I said, once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

It is unfortunate that the Catholic Church counts everyone ever baptized in the Church as Catholic, because they get the benefit of counting myself as an adherent for the purpose of boasting about their total numbers, when I have definitely closed my purse and walked out.

It didn't mean it literally. I mean that even though one has renounced the Christianity religion, an ex Catholic will still have the need to defend it vociferously.

[Claire Evans]

I suppose Jesus spreading hatred of what Pharisees did was not really nice, was it?

You are the first Christian I have heard accusing Jesus of spreading hatred
You are justifying spreading hatred by saying "Christ says it's okay." Really.

You missed my point. You are accusing me of hatred for exposing the evil in the Catholic Church but when Jesus exposed the evil of the Pharisees, that is not hateful to you?

Couldn't this be considered "hateful"?

Matthew 23:33

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

As I said, once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

If you say so. I can disagree with Catholicism but I'm hardly going to accept criticism done in ignorance. I owe it to my previous training to correct errors.

Wouldn't you say your previous training is indoctrination? You are an ex Christian because you believe it is nonsense yet your training isn't?

Of course it not going to be taken seriously by you. I think you suffer from cognitive dissonance. It's actually a common thing.

Oh - I never had it till our discussion here. It must be infectious.

Thanks for the health diagnosis. I'll try to keep my temper and insecurities in check.

By the way, Catholics DO believe in the resurrection but I suppose that's Satan working deviously. Tsk tsk.

Actually, you did. Since the start of my discourse with you.

I never claimed Catholics denied the resurrection.

I do not appreciate it that you ignore the most important point here about Mary worship. I referred you to the relevant post yet again you chose to ignore it. The question is, why? Is it because of the cognitive dissonance?

[Claire Evans]

Did you know that Vatican means, "Divining Serpent"?

What does serpent mean?

Revelation 20:2

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

It doesn't mean any such thing. Have you studied Latin? Vates is certainly a priest or prophet and the word cano means I sing. Vaticinus means prophetical. The verb: vaticinor means to foretell or sing out a prophecy. From this we have the name of the hill Mons Vaticanus, on which the Vatican is situated.

It has nothing to do with snake.

Your quote from Revelation may make sense to you.

There are plenty of things wrong with Catholicism and Christianity in general without inventing rubbish.

I'll acknowledge that canos doesn't mean serpent. However, we need to look at this more closely.

Vaticanus:

However, according to a Vatican curator:

"The Vatican Hill takes it name from the Latin word Vaticanus, a vaticiniis ferendis, in allusion to the oracles, or Vaticinia, which were anciently delivered here."

http://biblelight.net/vatican.htm


Why is the Vatican situation on a hill where oracles used to practise?

We know that oracle means prophet and diviners. Divining is associated with serpents:

The Spirit of Python Promoted Paul in Acts 16:16
In Acts, Paul encounters a demon possessed woman known as Python. She was popular at Philippi as a soothsayer whom people paid for prophecies. Those aspiring to be kings and rulers would vie for her endorsement to gain acceptance from among the people. Large parts of Greece fell to Philip of Macedon because Philip bribed the Python priestess to prophesy he would conquer. (See infra.) The Pythoness thus was a 'rock-star' -- to use a modern equivalent.

"Python in Greek mythology was the serpent who guarded the Delphic oracle....Apollo's prophetic seer was called Pythia."

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/373 ... ts-16.html


"Serpents (Hebrew: נחש‎‎ n�ḥ�š) are referred to in both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. The symbol of a serpent or snake played important roles in religious and cultural life of ancient Egypt, Canaan, Mesopotamia and Greece. The serpent was a symbol of evil power and chaos from the underworld as well as a symbol of fertility, life and healing.[1] Nachash, Hebrew for "snake", is also associated with divination, including the verb-form meaning to practice divination or fortune-telling"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpents_in_the_Bible

This is a on a papal crest in the Vatican museum:



This is Marduk, also known as Nimrod, the dragon serpent.

"There is one common element to Nimrod/Marduk in all his manifestations and that is the symbol of the snake/serpent/dragon. Nimrod took the dragon as his personal emblem, so that from him spring various dragon myths and their special association with apocalyptic events. Strikingly the only favorable accounts of dragons are found among the Hamitic peoples of the world (like Nimrod) including the Ethiopians, Hittites, Chinese, Japanese and American Indian."

What can we deduce from this? This is serpent worship in the Vatican:

http://www.ldolphin.org/Nimrod.html

The Pope holding a snake staff

Revelation 20:2

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."

[Talishi]

It didn't mean it literally. I mean that even though one has renounced the Christianity religion, an ex Catholic will still have the need to defend it vociferously.

I found myself in that curious position on another forum, an ex-Catholic arguing that, no, Catholics do not worship Mary as the fourth book in the Holy Trilogy. If I had no love for truth I would let it slide, let the Protties and Cathlicks duke it out.